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Islam: The 'So Called' Religion of Peace And..............
#41
Lisa Wrote:Well, there's peace, and then there's peace. See: Peace, as Opposed to Peace.

Your article is absolutely correct. My maternal Grandmother's family, still living in Morocco, fully understand this. That is why almost every member of the Sephardim know fully what is at stake here.

Now, if only the Ashkenazim, and a majority of Gentiles, could see this.

By the way Lisa, welcome to Jane. Why don't you go to the Introduction thread and tell us about yourself.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#42
John L Wrote:By the way Lisa, welcome to Jane. Why don't you go to the Introduction thread and tell us about yourself.

Thanks, John. Done and done.
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#43
Peace is not a problem,all we need do is offer to be slaves/victims without resistance to the latest tyrants of the earth. Yesterday Nazi and Communist,today Islam. Anyone wants that ought to offer themselves for it instead of advocating others do it first.

I have yet to read of any pacifists here offering themselves as slaves to Islamic terror groups.
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#44
Palladin Wrote:Peace is not a problem,all we need do is offer to be slaves/victims without resistance to the latest tyrants of the earth. Yesterday Nazi and Communist,today Islam. Anyone wants that ought to offer themselves for it instead of advocating others do it first.

I have yet to read of any pacifists here offering themselves as slaves to Islamic terror groups.

Did you fully digest what her article is stating. I think that it is at least one of the major keys to this entire thing.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#45
John,

I've always held that weakness in their face is like shooting them up with steroids. They respect power,nothing else.

That's why a loss anywhere is an eventual loss everywhere,IMO.

Most think our "aggressiveness" creates more Muslim terrorists. Nonsense,our pansie attitude is creating millions of them rapidly. Even the least likely terrorist will eventually get off the fence the weakness we're showing the world.
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#46
Palladin Wrote:John,

I've always held that weakness in their face is like shooting them up with steroids. They respect power,nothing else.

That's why a loss anywhere is an eventual loss everywhere,IMO.

Most think our "aggressiveness" creates more Muslim terrorists. Nonsense,our pansie attitude is creating millions of them rapidly. Even the least likely terrorist will eventually get off the fence the weakness we're showing the world.

Agreed!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#47
I think ultimately to end terrorism we have to convince them that if the terrorism doesn't stop they won't exist. They need to believe we'll destroy islam if terrorism continues. They don't believe we're the America that nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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#48
Can we get back on topic, please? It's not about terrorism or how to fight it. Plenty of other threads about that already! :roll:

Palladin Wrote:Neither has Stroll posited that Christians are motivated to murder non Christians,but if he or you want to,make the intellectual case and let's move ahead here.
You're right, I have not brought this in, it's a different subject, though a diversion into comparing the history of different faiths could be useful.
With posting the article I was hoping to inspire a more abstract discussion about the values taught in the Koran.

Quote:Stroll has posited that Islam teaches brotherhood among mankind and that Islam's enemy is evil.
Emm, NO.
I am not thinking in terms of "good and evil", the article doesn't suggest anything of the kind, either.
I propose that teachings of peace and love are plenty to be found in the Koran, and suggest that many a Muslim concentrate on this in their lives.

Let's have a look at the positive side for a change, the constant denigrating of this world religion is getting pretty tiresome and repetitive.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
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#49
Lisa, I'm sorry that my modem/server isn't going to download that "Peace" document; I can't see it. Thanks, though.

I earned a degree in religion without studying Islam or Buddhism, and my 'Old Testament' courses didn't really explain what Judaism means to Jews. So I'm not sure how peaceful Islam was to begin with (at the beginning of the Koran), shortly thereafter (as Mohamed finished the Koran), or at each of the centennial stages of Islam thereafter. however, if it's true that the things that are written in the last half or last third of a holy book mean more than the first half, what does that say about the bible?

I know that Judaism can be taught as a very peaceful religion, or as a genocidal religion; so can Christianity. So, I doubt that any of us posting here (without advanced degrees in Islamic studies) will really know what we're talking about. So, let's talk about it anyway.

Is Islam a peaceful religion? I don't know. Do you really know?
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#50
Thai,

In Islam,abrogation is a doctrine. The Koran is one document written by 1 man. Abrogation holds that the later writing carries more weight than the early writing. So,when Mohammad wrote about no compulsion in religion and being nice to "people of the book",UNFORTUNATELY for us,that was early on. The more hate filled commentary is progressively more hateful and comes later. I used to know a British atheist whose papa was a pastor.

He read the Bible and the Koran(believed neither) and reported the Koran was noticeably more hostile as it goes along towards Christians and Jews. He assumed Mohammad initially felt we would convert and when we did not,he got ticked off.
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#51
Palladin Wrote:Thai,

In Islam,abrogation is a doctrine. The Koran is one document written by 1 man. Abrogation holds that the later writing carries more weight than the early writing. So,when Mohammad wrote about no compulsion in religion and being nice to "people of the book",UNFORTUNATELY for us,that was early on. The more hate filled commentary is progressively more hateful and comes later.
On the contrary, Moslems are told to evaluate Quran as a whole, every section has the same value. That was what we are told in Turkey, to see if same suggestion is given by other Moslem nations I checked an Arabic Web Site for reading the Quran correctly.
Here is an excerpt from that site
Quote:Another important rule in the interpretation of the Qur'an is to
fully grasp its essence. In order to do that, one has to see it as a
whole. Furthermore, it should be explained in the light of the many
verses which reflect the infinite mercy, compassion and justice of
God.
Link: http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5529
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#52
Kamil,

I think that is how Turk theologians teach,which if that was most Islam,we would never have mentioned the subject,would we?

Did I used to concern myself so much with Islam when I first knew you?

I fear your experiences are of the most benevolent strain and unfortunately for us both,yours is not the majority. Arabs simply are more readily prepared to operate off of the most hostile Koran commcents,they are readily prepared to listen to the hottest firebreathing Imams.

Maybe this is simply cultural(outside of wahabb),but it is not accurate to see Turk Islam as Arab Islam,IMO.
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#53
They tend to prove you correct everytime. I predict when these robots start succeeding in murdering people who are honest and knowledgable about their history in the USA,the Muslims will be exported back to their Muslim sewers real soon, I hope so.


http//littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24746_Religion_of_Beheading&only
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#54
Palladin,

in your shoes, I would have digged a bit deeper before shooting my own foot. As it turned out, Mr. Soriano is in hiding, wanted for two cases of rape. He's the leader of a Christian cult that regularly attacks nearly all the other Christian denominations. A rival Christian cult obviously hit back,

Quote:Soriano was targeted in a smear campaign in 2003 when a series of comics depicted him negatively. The author and publisher were never identified but Soriano said the rival religion was behind it, prompting INC officials to issue libel proceedings against him.

As well as the pending rape charge, in September 2006 a group of Muslims were outraged with Soriano when the rival religion, Iglesia ni Cristo circulated a Video CD containing clips of Soriano allegedly disparaging Islam and Mohammad on his TV program. Soriano, maintained that the VCD had been fabricated. A rally against Soriano scheduled outside his headquarters at Apalit was circumvented after Muslim leaders said Soriano was innocent and that Muslims were being used by Iglesia ni Cristo.

Yeah, the Muslims have, (maybe), been provoked to say something you like, though looking at the pic in your link they don't look and act like a murderous Islamic mob and there's a great probability the alledged text on the banner is something else. What about 'Behead Those Who Rape'? On all the internet, I found no pic with the whole text of the banner. Only the usual suspects, retarted right-wing blogs, spread the story.

However, I can present you one blog that boldly goes beyond your wildest dreams of right-wing dementia. Consider it a gift.
http://www.sheikyermami.com/
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#55
Quad,

Yea,those Jews provoked you Germans,too. And your Muslim friends and your apostate Christian friends.....
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#56
Islam is a huge topic of discussion here. Palladin makes many thread on it, which all get many replies.

These things in mind, I'm going to try to get to the heart of the issue. Islam *is* a problem. It is a problem because of the way it treats women. Islam preaches taht women are essentially deceitful, and need to be guarded against. This, I believe, is the root of the violence that Islam creates.

I consider myself a dyed-in-the-wool-Liberal, yet it is because I am liberal, that I abhor the way Islam is practiced in most Mideast countries. Contemporary Islam is the antithesis of liberal values - demeaning women, promoting warfare, etc.

Thoughts?
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#57
Anonymous, that is precisely why for the life of me I cannot understand why so many "Liberals" absolutely go into a state of denial and defeat vis a vis the terrorists.
Bean
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#58
Anonymous24 Wrote:Islam is a huge topic of discussion here. Palladin makes many thread on it, which all get many replies.

These things in mind, I'm going to try to get to the heart of the issue. Islam *is* a problem. It is a problem because of the way it treats women. Islam preaches taht women are essentially deceitful, and need to be guarded against. This, I believe, is the root of the violence that Islam creates.

I consider myself a dyed-in-the-wool-Liberal, yet it is because I am liberal, that I abhor the way Islam is practiced in most Mideast countries. Contemporary Islam is the antithesis of liberal values - demeaning women, promoting warfare, etc.

Thoughts?
Good post. Of course, the fundamentalist ideas of Islam -- as some religions-- are detrimental to women. However, the exposure of women to European and American tolerance of religious views is a force for improvement. As an expatriot American living in Europe, I am convinced that prolonged exposure to democratic culture is a tool for change. In the Netherlands where I live, there is increasing public participation of Muslim women in politics, public discussions and activities in national life.

It seems clear to me that democratic forces are very poweful, particuarly considering the alternatives that one experiences or witnesses in the countries of origin of many Muslims.

Frankly, I see the democratic process as a liberating process. I firmly believe that this process will ultimately temper any extremist positions that try to influence Europeans society.

Consider the current example of Turkey. As that is the major souce of news for many Muslims in Europe, it has a tremendous influence on Muslims in Europe.
Quote:"The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it." -- Voltaire
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#59
To reply to both Ken and Matrix, Islam is bad, but the way to remedy it is *not* through war. Let Muslims drive themselves into the ground, while they are exposed to the benefits of Western values. Their young will see the light, eventually, if not its happening right now.
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#60
Anonymous24 Wrote:To reply to both Ken and Matrix, Islam is bad, but the way to remedy it is *not* through war. Let Muslims drive themselves into the ground, while they are exposed to the benefits of Western values. Their young will see the light, eventually, if not its happening right now.

I agree with Anonymous to an extent. Except Islam as a whole isn't "bad", it's those who radicalize it who are bad.
What should be done, especially to Muslim youth, is educate them about their own religion...not "Westernize" it, but use their own religion to show that it has been hijacked and used as a scam to justify terrorism. (which is forbidden in Islam)
Here's an article I found interesting. This is actually a good PSYOP campaign they've come up with recently. It could very well work work, IMO, if done carefully (i.e.: if it's not turned into something offensive to Muslims).
"Some of the best weapons do not shoot.”
U.S. Army Counterinsurgency Field Manual FM 3-24 December, 2006
BE PREPARED - http://www.gunsandall.com/

http://www.westerncivforum.com/index.php
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