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The Religious Significance of America
#1
Palladin and some others may be interested in this rabbi’s take on why many people have long regarded America as a sort of “Israel of the New World.”

This is from the 2014 book by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, The Mystery of the Shemitah, pp. 57-58:

“Many would find it surprising to learn that America was consciously, intentionally, and specifically founded and formed after the pattern of ancient Israel. Its founders saw it as a new Israel, the Israel of the New World. It was their exodus from Europe like the Hebrew exodus from Egypt. The New World was their promised land, and the Massachusetts Bay Colony was their New Jerusalem.

“As for the legal system of the new American commonwealth, the Puritans sought to incorporate the Law of Moses. They instituted a day of rest after the pattern of the Hebrew Sabbath. And the American holiday, Thanksgiving, was formed after the pattern of the Hebrew Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles.

“They named the mountains of America after the mountains of Israel: Mount Gilead, Mount Hermon, Mount Ephraim, Mount Moriah, Mount Carmel, and Mount Zion. They called their towns and cities, Jericho, Jordan, Salem, Canaan, Goshen, Hebron, and Beersheba. They named their children Joshua, Rachel, Ezra, Zechariah, Esther, Jeremiah, and a host of other names derived from the people of ancient Israel.

“They even taught Hebrew in their schools and universities. On the seal of Yale University appear the Hebrew words from the breastplate of the high priest. On the seal of Columbia University appears the ancient Hebrew name for God. And on the seal of Dartmouth University appear the Hebrew words translating to ‘the Almighty God.’

“America’s link to ancient Israel has undergirded its national identity, in one form or another, consciously or unconsciously, from the time of its inception onward.

. . . .

“There is no nation in the modern world so deeply linked to ancient Israel as America.”

The same author pointed out in his previous book, The Harbinger, that when George Washington was inaugurated as America’s first president (which occurred in New York City, not in Washington, D.C.) he then led all the newly elected senators and congressmen to the small stone church at the edge of what we now call “Ground Zero,” where they all joined in prayer to dedicate and consecrate the new nation to God.

Many of us forget our nation’s origin, and scoff at the pretense of religious significance for America’s role in the world. Indeed, in many courts today, witnesses no longer place their left hand on a Bible and raise their right hand in the air to be sworn in—they just raise their right hands and promise to tell the truth. We fail to see how often our nation repeats the mistakes and sins of ancient Israel, which invites divine judgments.

In his earlier book, Rabbi Cahn drew some striking parallels between Isaiah 9:10 and what happened in America on 9/11/2001. Because of their apostasy, Israel’s hedge of protection began to be removed, and the Assyrians were allowed to invade and cause great damage, though they were contained and did not then conquer the land. But their response was to proclaim in defiance, not repentance: “The bricks have fallen down, But we will rebuild with hewn stones; The sycamores are cut down, But we will replace them with cedars.”

That meant they were determined that on their own resources they would rebuild stronger than before. The clay bricks that had been scattered by the Assyrians would be replaced with granite blocks quarried from nearby mountains—especially the corner stone. The sycamore trees that had been cut down would be replaced by cedars—or in Hebrew, erez trees. Interestingly, when the twin towers fell down on 9/11, an old sycamore tree located on the corner of Ground Zero was broken down. It was replaced with a cedar tree. When the new freedom tower was being built, for its foundation a 20-ton block hewn from a mountain was used. At least three prominent political leaders actually quoted Isaiah 9:10, intending it as an expression of defiance against those who would wish America ill; but not realizing that Isaiah 9:10 actually documented ancient Israel’s failure to repent of its apostasy, and indulge in defiance against God Himself.

By the way, that little stone church where the first government of America consecrated themselves and the nation to God, miraculously survived the falling of the twin towers (it was right next door), apparently having been shielded by the sycamore tree that was broken. The church is still there.

Cahn draws many more quite amazing parallels, showing that God is dealing with America even today, the way He did with ancient Israel and then Judah.

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn
   
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#2
Ron, I believe he has glossed over some things in order to make it fit his idea of how things really happened. And he makes it sound as though religious persecution was the main driving force here. It wasn't: it was business, or what was known as Mercantilism. English, Spanish, Dutch, and other countries practiced it in the New World.

Escape from religious persecution was a very small part of the settling process. In fact, the Calvinists(Puritans in this case mostly) came here because they couldn't force their overly aggressive beliefs on to others. Calvinists were unusually good at that sort of thing. That's why they fled England, after causing trouble with the Church of England, and moved to Amsterdam, where they proceeded to alienate the Dutch as well. Finally the New World was just about the only place they could go to practice their Unique form of Christianity.

I will concede the fact that religion, and even Jewish traditions, greatly influenced the early settlers. But remember the Spanish were Roman Catholics. the Dutch were Huguenots(More Calvinists, but perhaps more watered down), crown English(Anglicans), and others.

The point is that it was just much more complicated than the good rabbi is describing here. But I do get his point, even if a bit blown out of proportion. S22
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#3
John, you are underestimating how religious the vast majority of the nation's founders were. Just read the diaries of George Washington and others. They were fervent in their faith. It is also a fact that for the first few generations, the Biblical languages of Hebrew and Greek were taught in public schools. The Bible was a textbook used in classes.

Another interesting point Rabbi Cahn makes in his second book, is that God began pouring out judgments upon ancient Israel when they began sacrificing their children to pagan deities. That was only a few thousands. In 1973, the U.S. Supreme court ruled that killing unborn babies was legal, and since then, it is estimated that over 50 million unborn bablies have been killed in America. Could this have anything to do with God permitting so many calamities, troubles, and economic and financial downturns? Cahn suggests these things are merely warnings of much worse that is to follow.
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#4
No I'm not underestimating that. I'm just stating that he is embellishing some of the points there, as though the only people to initially come to America were Puritans, and a great deal of it was Jewishness. And I'm not denying that, just the amount of significance of those few things.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#5
I find it amazing that a JEW--a rabbi at that--would say: "There is no nation in the modern world so deeply linked to ancient Israel as America.” In other words, even more so than Modern Israel!
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#6
The 2cd generation of the pilgrims became corrupt, only the 1st generation lived reasonably within a Christian ethic with their neighbors. Read up on "King Phillip's War". The pilgrims mass murdered fellow Christians who just happened to be Indians living with them by choice.

If that crew is who is supposed to be the Christian foundations, they were indeed built on sand.

John's right, most immigrants over here were for business purposes like Virginia was settled. Handful for their own religious impulses and many turned out as rigid and hateful as those they fled from over time.

If the rabbi dusts off his OT text, he will see ancient Israel does not come over so good, so comparing the US to it is a backhanded slap followed up by a left hook.

Anyway, why would a religious Jew or a Christian see a secular state as "unique" with God? The idea is anti biblical as hell is.
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#7
I wish more people would read the diaries of George Washington, and other leaders at that time, and gain a real appreciation for how fervent they actually were in their faith. Their generation was far different from ours. It is a mistake to try to judge past generations by projecting to them the attitudes common among people in our generation.

Well, hell does exist--in the Bible hell meant the grave. It did not mean a place of eternal torment in everlasting flames.

Also a place of unquenchable fire will exist at the end of the millennium--when fire comes down from Heaven and turns the earth's surface into a lake of fire, inwhich all the wicked, including Satan and his fellow fallen angels, will be burned up and destroyed so they cease to exist. The lake of fire is a necessary step in restoring the earth to the conditions of Paradise, since much of the water on the earth's surface needs to be returned to where it originally was, above the atmosphere.

I would not rush to question Rabbi Cahn's knowledge of the Old Testament. He knows Hebrew, and probably has a lot of the Old Testament memorized. I thought I was pretty well versed in the ancient Hebrew economy, and I was aware of the seventh-year Shemitah, but I did not know that name for it, and I did not really appreciate its importance.

Let me share a portion of an email I recently sent to Rabbi Cahn:

Quote:As one quite well versed in the time prophecies of Daniel 9:24-27, I would note that the prophecies lead to the year when Jesus was anointed Messiah in 27 A.D. (when He began to be about 30 years of age, as stated in Luke 3:23—remember, the Christian and Gregorian calendars were off, and Jesus was actually about 4 years old in 1 A.D., having been born in 4 B.C.—with no year zero, of course), and indicate that He would be “cut off, but not for Himself” (Dan. 9:26) in the Spring of 31 A.D. That was 69 sevens of years, or 483 years, from the “going forth of the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem” (Dan. 9:25) which Nehemiah published throughout the land once he arrived with the commission from Artaxerxes in Jerusalem probably in October of 457 B.C. 483 years from that date leads to 27 A.D.—remembering that 1 B.C. was followed by 1 A.D.

Since Jesus was crucified in the Spring of the year, at the time of the Passover (“in the midst of the week” or 3 ½ years after He was anointed), that means that prophetically, He had to have been crucified in 31 A.D.

I will let you know if I receive a response from Rabbi Cahn.
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#8
Ron,

Washington was a believer, so what? So is Bill Clinton. Why is the USA unique with God? The church is unique with God, not these secular Caesars.

Anyway, the rabbi appears to be a huckster, he's gotten wealthy off folks exactly with your opinion base, he does not believe a word of what he writes, IMO. Check his website out, looks awful cheesy.
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#9
BTW, the rabbi appears to be into Kabbalah, so his public views( which I believe are fraudulent) are based on Kabbalah mystic interpretations of OT prophetic stuff relating to BC Israel and her history.
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#10
How about the religious significance of China? I have a book called " Christ, The Eternal Tao" which I have yet to read. It's basis is that Lao Tzu intuited the Christ and maybe modern Chinese are seeing this more clearly?

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Eternal-Tao...1887904239
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#11
Palladin, if you believe that Rabbi Cahn's public views are fraudulent, would you mind sharing how you would refute what he has said? What he says about the one-year-in-seven Shemitah is Biblically correct. Do you dispute the applications he has made to modern history? If so, please explain all the coincidences. If you feel inclined to ridicule the idea of America being "the Israel of the New World," that is your prerogative. But do not make the mistake of trying to deny the historical fact that so many of America's founders did have that view, and this is the way many of us Americans (those of us who have not drunk the leftist-progressive Kool-Aid) have always felt about our country.
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#12
Ron,

Yea, I do dispute any idea that any biblical passage relates to modernist mankind. I'd say no OT passage is about the USA. They're all about ancient Israel/ancient pagans and God.

Lots of his ideas he conflates ancient prophecies that would relate to the USA in some peripheral form, that's simply impossible since Jesus indicated in Luke 21 that "these are the days of vengeance" and all things written are fulfilled in "this generation" on Jerusalem( which I take as all things about vengeance/judgement predicted previously in the OT text such as Deuteronomy 27-29, Leviticus 26, etc).

The only relationship the USA has with ancient Israel is we are attempting to be as evil.

Being a "modern Israel" is not something to desire or be proud of.

If you consider what Paul taught the effect of Torah was on ancient Israel, you'd understand why Jerusalem became the most evil society in history (did Jesus say if Sodom and Gomorrah saw what they saw, they would have repented"?).
Also , it is not possible since IF it were, God would have unilaterally "elected" the USA as His people like He did do Abram/Israel.

You know enough NT dogma to know only ancient Israel and AD church are currently elected by God,not this secular nation.

Consider checking out the OT narrative, then let's discuss this. Israel is seen as bad OR worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, Nineveh, Egypt, Babylon in the OT narrative, Jesus made several statements stating they were even worse.





So, no, I don't think the bible is about anyone past 70 AD and certainly I do not think the USA is related to BC theological Israel and I thank God we are not that evil.

Read the narrative Ron, Israel became the most evil of all by 30 AD. If Sodom and Gomorrah saw what 30 AD Jerusalem saw, they would have repented!
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#13
All four lines of Bible prophecy in Daniel pass way beyond 70 A.D., unless you are willfully obtuse. Consider the iron legs of Rome terminating in the ten toes into which the Barbarian conquerors of Rome divided Rome in Daniel 2. Consider the "little horn" imagery of Daniel 7 and 8. Consider everything in Daniel 11 past verse 21. And Revelation 13 specifically applies to the USA--in the figure of the "Lamb-like" second beast that arises in the Wilderness (the New World). The Lamb-like beast is America, that in the beginning seems Christian (the Lamb is a symbol of Christ), but at the end becomes apostate, and does the bidding of the Dragon (Satan).

The Apostle Peter summarized all of Old Testament prophecy this way: "Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things which angels desire to look into." (1 Peter 1:10-12; NKJV)

In other words, ALL Bible prophecy relates either to the First coming of Christ, or to the Second Coming of Christ. If you embrace the faithless, infidel belief that the Bible applied no further than 70 A.D., then according to what Peter said you are missing the point of half the prophecies of the Old Testament--not to mention the New Testament.
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#14
Til Valhal
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#15
Ron,

Fine, the old prophets knew of the USA and wrote about us and only Ms White had that insight. The rest of us are obtuse.

Someone should have informed Jesus and He would have been wiser about what the deal is cause Jesus sure did think 30 AD Jerusalem was the proper object of His Divine wrath and all vengeance passages in the OT in Luke 21(which means MS White was full of you know what), 30 AD Jerusalem really did murder Christ like Isaiah presumed they would in chapter 53 and 70 AD sure as hell did occur. Just like Jesus said it would,notwithstanding Ms White, you and the SDA.
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#16
For clarification, add before " in luke 21" above the words "WERE FULFILLED".

There is no prophetic vengeance to be fulfilled on Jerusalem in our future.
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#17
You have to close your eyes to what the Bible says to deny that it applies beyond 70 A.D. Trying to dismiss it as my opinion or Ellen G. White's opinion gets you absolutely nowhere. As for symbolic prophecy like Revelation 13, follow the sane and sensible method of allowing the Bible to define all its own symbols. Waters represents the peoples of the Old World. (See Rev. 17:15.) Thus the Wilderness could only refer to the New World. "Lamblike horns" could only mean Christian-seeming. Changing so that it begins to speak as a dragon could only mean that the union of church and state in the New World will change and do the work of Satan, the dragon. These are the only possible interpretations, without jumping to imaginative conclusions--which the Apostle Peter forbade when he said: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:20, 21.) When you submit to this discipline, the interpretation of Bible prophecy ceases to be a mystery, and the interpretation is certain. And since the prophecies were inspired by the Holy Spirit, there is no reason why they have to be limited in their application to 70 A.D. God says He knows "the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10). So either you believe in God or you do not. There is no middle ground possible.

By the way, since Old Israel and Old Jerusalem ended their probation as God's chosen people for accomplishing His will in 34 A.D. (the end of the 490 years of Daniel 9:24), it is the spiritual descendants of Israel and Jerusalem who now God means to use to accomplish His will--namely the Christian Church. This does not mean Christianity has supplanted the Jews, it means Christians are part of the original line of Abraham, who accept the promised "Seed" of Abraham. (As the Apostle Paul stated in Gal. 3:29, NKJV: "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.") Christianity is the continuation of the original religion of Judaism; it is the validation of Judaism. This may be hard for some to see, because of the enormous mistake the early church leaders made in substituting veneration of the pagan Day of the Sun in place of the Biblical Sabbath--which God has never changed.
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#18
Ron,

No, the church is not the validation of ancient Judaism. It's almost a 100% repudiation of it, it's a re-interpretation of almost the entire OT text in the person of Christ over against the traditional view of the Jews. It's a validation of the proper interpretation of the OT text which almost no Jew agreed with by the time Jesus arrived, that's why they rejected Him, right?

Why do you think Jesus' disciples couldn't understand what He was preaching until post resurrection? Why do you suspect the ancient Jews wanted to kill off the Gentile "dogs" and wanted to force Jesus to become an earthly king to do that?

Because ancient Judaism had gotten it so wrong it was mindboggling to such an extent they ended up saying, "We have no king but Caesar, kill Him"! Yes and that was all predicted to occur, it had to occur and Paul explained for you in Romans why the Torah caused it to occur.

Why was the Samaritan woman at the well shocked a Jew would even talk to a Samaritan? Cause Jews thought they were superior to others maybe? Was THAT what God taught them when He commanded they love their neighbor as themselves?

The rest of your SDA centric stuff I'll leave you with. You're wedded to that stuff and it wouldn't matter at all what the bible states.

Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are all about the people and generation Jesus was speaking to according to The Lord(He went out of his way to repeat over and over "all this will happen before this generation passes") and He's got validity with me.

"These are the days of vengeance" was meant for those who killed Christ, not future innocent Jews in futuristic Jerusalem who had nothing to do with any of that. That happens to have been the most egregious errors the church has ever made, holding Jews responsible for something they did not do past that generation. Only that generation was guilty dude, not a future generation.

Keep in mind all this stuff happens to Israel. Keep in mind it is a divine judgement against Israel. How could modern Jews be held responsible for Jesus' judgement on His generation in Jerusalem whom Jesus specifically stated was morally inferior to Sodom and Gomorrah??
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#19
You have a ton of faith in the ability to reason with him. Its futile, especially given past debates. Its been some pretty interesting reading, I will give you that. I must admit I am still having a hard time understanding predictions or significance of the US in the bible, though overall religious perspectives on the meaning of Christianity are certainly illuminating.
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#20
Tait,


You're right. I'm pretty bad at arguing anyway. I'm an addict.

Here's some more knowledge Ron "America is God's country" Lambert needs to file away so he can enhance his views of the religious significance of the USA. He appears right after all, the problem is, the religion the USA is pushing ain't taught in the bible.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/isis-e....hhKLrv8dJ
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