Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Did Muhammad Really Exist?
#21
And not to be outdone in the Big Question, there is this one as well. In fact this is something you have to read in order to believe. Here is a German professor, a Muslim convert and Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, who studied the Islamic scriptures, for some years. His conclusion: The Prophet Muhammad probably never existed..

I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#22


___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#23
OK, I did watch that Channel 4 movie. Not impressed, until 40 minutes into it there was nothing whatsoever of interest.... waste of time, at least for me (probably not for you). And a couple of more interesting things said were questionable.
On the right track yes, but low quality.

In general, science is best approached by reading and not watching youtube clips, this is the difference between science and pornography. But ok, here is some Kalisch in preferred format for you:





He unconverted from Islam btw, a couple of years after developing that first deviancy. S13

In April 2010, a spokesman for the University of Münster announced that Professor Kalisch had finally renounced Islam, and added that it was not crucial for a professor of Islam to be a Muslim.

This last sentence makes one think that the Germans still have hope, unlike Brits degenerated beyond any.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#24
(01-22-2014, 12:55 PM)mv Wrote: OK, I did watch that Channel 4 movie. Not impressed, until 40 minutes into it there was nothing whatsoever of interest.... waste of time, at least for me (probably not for you). And a couple of more interesting things said were questionable.
On the right track yes, but low quality.

Oh ho, a back-handed slap, William Lambert style? S6

Quote:In general, science is best approached by reading and not watching youtube clips, this is the difference between science and pornography. But ok, here is some Kalisch in preferred format for you:





He unconverted from Islam btw, a couple of years after developing that first deviancy. S13

You really are in rare form today professor. S13

Quote:In April 2010, a spokesman for the University of Münster announced that Professor Kalisch had finally renounced Islam, and added that it was not crucial for a professor of Islam to be a Muslim.

This last sentence makes one think that the Germans still have hope, unlike Brits degenerated beyond any.

You may be correct there. However, Brits are a bit different, from Krauts, in how they solve problems. Krauts go about such things in a methodical manner, as in steps 1 to 2 to 3 and so on. Brits have a history of doing things in a drunken stupor, and they are usually violent about it.

My English History professor, Col. Charles Martin(talk about an Anglo-Saxon name) used to describe how 'bell pulling' was a traditional English way of relieving pent-up energy/frustration. They would run into churches, grab bell cords, and pull them until they reached complete exhaustion, and couldn't stand any longer. Another favorite pastime was for nearby villages to mount up and play their own form of rugby. They would meet halfway, on horseback, and the object was to get the ball to the center of their town's square. Anyone possessing the ball was fair game to be beaten senseless, until the other side could recover the ball and head back to their own town. This would continue, until one side managed to win, or everyone was totally beaten senseless. S5

My point is that once the Brits reach the saturation point, they will suddenly solve their Islam problem in a manner that only they can do so effortlessly. You can count on it. S13
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#25
OH, by the way, the Catholic World Report was not impressed with Spencer's book.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#26
(01-22-2014, 01:13 PM)John L Wrote:
(01-22-2014, 12:55 PM)mv Wrote: OK, I did watch that Channel 4 movie. Not impressed, until 40 minutes into it there was nothing whatsoever of interest.... waste of time, at least for me (probably not for you). And a couple of more interesting things said were questionable.
On the right track yes, but low quality.

Oh ho, a back-handed slap, William Lambert style? S6

Not at all. The difference is that I've been looking at this for years already, popular movies at this time are a waste of time. But as a first intro, nothing wrong.

Just be careful... the movie has real problems besides being way too watery.

APPEND. Honestly, I'm just pissed off that I stayed late yesterday watching this movie.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#27
(01-22-2014, 01:13 PM)John L Wrote: My point is that once the Brits reach the saturation point, they will suddenly solve their Islam problem in a manner that only they can do so effortlessly. You can count on it. S13

No chance, they will simply silently walk into extinction.

BTW, very important thing to understand: it is not merely Islam that is insulted by movies like the Channel4 piece... in fact, Islam is merely an excuse. Instead, one of the foundation stones of Western liberalism for 200 years was that unlike Christ, Mohammed is historic... this is a religious dogma akin to AGW and cannot be touched.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#28
In re the review: mostly disagree, but it makes one really important point:

Quote:But none of this answers a fundamental question: what exactly happened to transform the Arab peoples from a series of disparate, un-advanced tribes into the unified juggernaut that laid low the Byzantine and Persian Empires in the seventh century? The traditional Islamic narrative provides an explanation, albeit a problematic one. Spencer’s revision, other than some notion of a vague “Abrahamic monotheism” does not provide an adequate answer.

Indeed. Spencer does not touch this, and therefore Arabic conquest is as improbable in Spencer's model as in the traditional. The Channel4 clip has this problem too, albeit differently: they claim that early Islam was a variant Judaism! This is the part that one must go with Morozov's view that Early Islam was a variant Christianity (perhaps similar to Judaism in some ways), then everything adds up.

I do wonder if the author of the review has some deep beliefs that make Spencer unacceptable... for instance, that an attack on the historic nature of Muhammad implies an attack on Christ too.... ?
And I should get this new Ehrman's book.... he is very good.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#29
http://extratorrent.cc/torrent/3338912/D...+ABEE.html
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#30
(01-22-2014, 01:35 PM)mv Wrote: BTW, very important thing to understand: it is not merely Islam that is insulted by movies like the Channel4 piece... in fact, Islam is merely an excuse. Instead, one of the foundation stones of Western liberalism for 200 years was that unlike Christ, Mohammed is historic... this is a religious dogma akin to AGW and cannot be touched.

Western Liberalism, or the American bastardization? Remember, you are addressing a Real Liberal here. None of that Progressive horseshit.




(01-22-2014, 01:45 PM)mv Wrote: Indeed. Spencer does not touch this, and therefore Arabic conquest is as improbable in Spencer's model as in the traditional. The Channel4 clip has this problem too, albeit differently: they claim that early Islam was a variant Judaism! This is the part that one must go with Morozov's view that Early Islam was a variant Christianity (perhaps similar to Judaism in some ways), then everything adds up.

I had not thought about all of this until yesterday, but having spent a little time on the subject, I get that impression as well. And the cross on the coin is most telling.

Quote:I do wonder if the author of the review has some deep beliefs that make Spencer unacceptable... for instance, that an attack on the historic nature of Muhammad implies an attack on Christ too.... ?
And I should get this new Ehrman's book.... he is very good.

That was my immediate thought, as I read that Catholic review. I thought, "You are protecting your own ass, by supporting another established religion. You are worried about the Domino Effect, aren't you?"
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#31
Don't you have anything on Nikolai Alexandrovich Morozov, that I can read, or watch, which will fill in the gaps on his views? I'm dying to read how he tied Christianity to Islam, and all over the rebellion to the State religion of Christianity. It makes perfect sense, but I want to study it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#32
Quote:And the cross on the coin is most telling.
not sure which coin you are talking about but I think there were some like these circa 700AD?

Quote:Western Liberalism, or the American bastardization? Remember, you are addressing a Real Liberal here. None of that Progressive horseshit.

Well, find a better term if you can, remembering that the problem dates back to Voltaire and Washington Irving. I am lazy to think, for me "Dirty Liberals" is good enough.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#33
(01-22-2014, 03:01 PM)John L Wrote: Don't you have anything on Nikolai Alexandrovich Morozov, that I can read, or watch, which will fill in the gaps on his views? I'm dying to read how he tied Christianity to Islam, and all over the rebellion to the State religion of Christianity. It makes perfect sense, but I want to study it.

I do but it is in Russian. I'll see what if anything can be done about this. (I tried to find at least some kind of summary in English yesterday -- no luck).

It occurred to me that Ehrman also has a book I missed on Christianity of 300-450 AD. It might be good background material (Ehrman work is very good).
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#34
While attempting to find some gems on Morozov, I came across this nice gem of a site. Its run by conservative orthodox Christians of MiddleEastern descent. And the page linked is about the history of how Egypt was forcefully converted from Christianity to Islam.

I'm learning more with each place I travel to. This is an interesting site.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#35
oh crap. I should stop googling this crap... I found a book I really want..
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#36
One really never knows what google finds while searching Morozov. These are OFFTOPIC here, but I think interesting for some other discussion:
http://www.portalus.ru/modules/english_r...cat=20&
https://www.academia.edu/440506/The_Seve...al_Planets
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#37
And here is even more: How the Vatican created Islam. This appears in several places, and refers to an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, who is supposedly the one to expose this.

It seems almost too good to be true. But being a consummate anti-Statist, I have a natural antipathy to even State religions. And that is what the Council of Nicea was all about. Nothing surprises me as to what lengths Statists will go to in order to eliminate competition. I don't happen to agree with Patrick that Nicea was a positive thing. I think it led to corruption and zero tolerance to other ideas.


And this dovetails with above.

Quote:...........................Consequently, there were different interpretations of what Jesus' teaching really meant. As a result, several different distinctive groups of Christians developed within the first centuries of the religion.

One important group was centered in Egypt and had influence throughout North Africa. This group was known as the Gnostics. You probably have not heard of this group, although they were very important and influential in the early history of Christianity. One of the other major factions of the early Christianity was centered in Rome. This faction was very much influenced by the teachings of the Apostle Paul. This faction became prominent in the fourth century C.E. when the Roman Empire officially became Christian. Recognizing the importance of a sacred text in solidifying their control over Christianity, the Roman faction brought together a collection of writings by early Christians and proclaimed these writings were inspired by God and that they were the true testament of the life and teachings of Jesus. This collection is known as the New Testament and is a central part of the Christian Bible. However, in creating the New Testament the Roman faction rejected as heresy all other writings about Jesus' life and teachings, including many books written by North African Gnostic Christians. No wonder so few people know of the importance of these early African Christians.

In spite of the repression of the Gnostic Christians by Roman Christians, Christianity continued to flourish throughout North Africa until the arrival of Islam in the seventh century C.E. The Christians in this area were known as Coptic Christians, named after the main language of the area. By the time of the arrival of Islam, the Coptic Orthodox Church had lost most of the Gnostic influence, although the Coptic faith, like the Gnostics placed a great deal of emphasis on contemplation and monastism. In structure, it was similar to the Church of Rome in that it practiced the same sacraments, and the church structure was made up of priests and bishops. Like the Roman Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church is headed by a Patriarch (similar to the Pope in the Roman Church) who lives in Alexandria.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#38
Both are bad links. First is conspiratorial nonsense, only a person who is violently anti-Catholic would find it enjoyable (don't we have one? there was some anti-catholic rant recently? Either Palladin or Warbicycle). The 2nd contains errors and imprecisions instantly visible.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#39
They both still work for me. Something else is going on.

I'm officially an Anglican Catholic, but not Roman. The two are quite different, even though the former began under less than legitimate circumstances(thanks to Henry VIII). But I can well imagine the Church of Rome, or Constantinople, pulling such a stunt.

It would make a great novel anyway. What's that Brown fellow's full name?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#40
Bad links == working links to unworthy sites.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)