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Female Clergy
#41
If Tom Selleck converted to Islam and brought fire and sword to the West, I would weep with joy and say my shadada.
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#42
Tait,


That's a major reason Islam appealed to Arab people early on. Had the westernized/Latinized version of Christendom have been popular in the east when Mohammad was around, the Arabs would probably have become Catholic type Christians and Islam would have been started up by a further eastern culture. I think a competing monotheism was inevitable myself.

As it was, in the east in that era(Byzantium east) Christians were more Christ like in concept w/o the nexus of nationalism as involved, it was also de centralized. So, it didn't appeal to Arabs who are still known to follow "the strong horse".

They'd have loved the western version of Christianity or US centric Christianity if it had been preached in 600 AD to them. Mohammad or Jesus wouldn't have made much difference, it was a unifying creed that maximized the power of their culture to control more and more. We Americans have used Christianity for nationalist purposes a lot ourselves.

Ron,

That's an interesting question, did Jesus do things consciously knowing they were fulfillments of OT texts? I think He did a lot. How could He not have? He knew the OT text, He knew there was a predicted betrayor, how could He not have selected Judas for that reason? He knowingly traced the physical paths of Joshua and David at times, how could He not have known what He was doing? He knew He was heading to Jerusalem to get Himself crucified, He knew it had to be and said so.

Look at Baptist and Jesus in the wilderness, that's where Joshua entered the land. Jesus knew that. He didn't just accidentally end up with the Baptist where Joshua entered Israel when He began His public ministry. Baptist was fulfilling the role of "the predicted returning Elijah", Jesus said so, I don't think it was an accident Baptist ended up there either, he knew what his role was.
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#43
Palladin, what I am suggesting is that it went both ways. Jesus did things in the past by inspiring the prophets to foretell things, because of the way they would go in the future, and in the future (when it became the present), He was also conscious of the past, and the way things needed to go for Him in the present.

Here is something interesting in Scripture, that can really play havoc with your sense of time and which direction causality flows:

Note Zechariah 2:1, 2 (NKJV):

Quote:“Then I raised my eyes and looked, and behold, a man with a measuring line in his hand. So I said, ‘Where are you going?’ And he said to me, ‘To measure Jerusalem, to see what is its width and what is its length."

Now compare that to a prophecy written almost a thousand years later, Revelation 11:1, 2 (NKJV):

Quote:“Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, ‘Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.’”

Did Zechariah see in vision the prophet John, who nearly a thousand years later would be told to measure the sanctuary and people in relation to the city, in John's own vision (that had not happened yet when Zechariah had his vision)? Is there a cross-reality of visions, where one impinges on another a thousand years apart?

I think we humans do not intuitively grasp the time awareness that God has. Isaiah wrote by inspiration these words by God, presented in the first person:

Quote:"Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.'" (Isaiah 46:9-11; NKJV)

If we postulate that God created time itself, then He would have to have this ability. It is something like He looks down from outside of time, and sees all of time, from beginning to ending, all at once.
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#44
Ron,

Some things are like that. Some OT statements such as Psalm 2 are as if an event has already occurred when it happened maybe 1000 years later as well. I share your view of how God is outside and inside of "time". When the bible says "you were resurrected with Christ" it is accurate because God is in the future to be present to that event, IMO.
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