Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Biocentrism
#1
I have had this ebook for a long while by Dr. Robert Lanza called How Life and Consciousness are the Keys to Understanding the True Nature of the Universe

Dr. Lanza says death does not exist and the key is your consciousness.

"Life creates the universe, not the other way round."

The universe would not be here if we were not observing it.

I find this ideology intriguing. We know more about outer space than we know about consciousness. Where is it located in the brain -- if it's truly there at all? As much as scientists have tried they still can not locate it.

I certainly believe that Dr. Lanza on to something. If you get a chance to read the book do it--you will find it making you think as well as rewarding. S22
Reply
#2
<Bump> Anyone? Anyone? S5
Reply
#3
Sorry, this Lanza chap is a bit too bizarre for me to diagnose.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#4
(11-17-2013, 10:43 AM)mv Wrote: Sorry, this Lanza chap is a bit too bizarre for me to diagnose.
Why do you think that he is bizarre?
Reply
#5
It may be a problem with the Daily Mail writeup but I cannot discern any substance in it .. smells to me like old-school idealism (idealism vs materialism) badly rehashed with modern data. Nothing to really comment on.

I looked a bit at his site.... again, cannot find any substance and only self-promotion plus bizarre stuff like

http://www.robertlanza.com/the-biocentri...os-itself/

Quote:The farther we peer into space, the more we realize that the nature of the universe cannot be understood fully by inspecting spiral galaxies or watching distant supernovas. It lies deeper. It involves our very selves.

Actually the models of the Universe are fairly decent and keep on improving

Quote:Lanza published a paper in The Lancet earlier this year detailing the results of early clinical trials involving two women suffering from macular degeneration. A UCLA ophthalmologist
Lanza Featured in Fortune Magazine
injected each woman with 50,000 retinal cells derived from human embryonic stem cells, and according to the paper, both claim to have better vision as a result.

Not clear if Lanza is a biologist, or an astronomer, or just a bs artist.... but there is enough known about the dangers of injection of foreign embryonic cells (cancers, etc) that anyone affiliated with this hobby would not get my attention.

---

Sorry, I will not answer any further on this. Just not sufficiently interesting.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#6
(11-17-2013, 12:15 PM)mv Wrote: Not clear if Lanza is a biologist, or an astronomer, or just a bs artist.... but there is enough known about the dangers of injection of foreign embryonic cells (cancers, etc) that anyone affiliated with this hobby would not get my attention.

---

Sorry, I will not answer any further on this. Just not sufficiently interesting.
He is a biologist and one of the most important, leading scientist in the world. So bizarre really does the man injustice. S17

Quote:“Robert Lanza is the living embodiment of the character played by Matt Damon in the movie “Good Will Hunting.” Growing up underprivileged in Stoughton, Mass., south of Boston, the young preteen caught the attention of Harvard Medical School researchers when he showed up on the university steps having successfully altered the genetics of chickens in his basement. Over the next decade, he was “discovered” and taken under the wing of scientific giants such as psychologist B.F. Skinner, immunologist Jonas Salk, and heart transplant pioneer Christiaan Barnard. His mentors described him as a “genius,” a “renegade thinker,” even likening him to Einstein.” – U.S.News & World Report, cover story
Reply
#7
I must confess that I had never heard of the fellow before. I've been too busy worrying about the loss of our Liberties. But if Deepak Chopra supports him, he must be on to something.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#8
Chopra specifically says:
Quote:his theory of biocentrism is consistent with the most ancient wisdom traditions of the world which says that consciousness conceives, governs, and becomes a physical world
classical idealism here, philosophy rather than science.
Sodomia delenda est

Reply
#9
What Chopra says there is close to pantheism, so Lanza seems to be adding his scientific theory to that angle.
We're in effect God (The entire creation is God)and the key is to figure this out, take full advantage of it, etc.

There's another guy Oprah is big into , Eckhart Tolle that is along these lines.
Reply
#10
Here is what Dr. Lanza has to say about:


The Myth of Death
Does the mind die with the body?


Energy can neither be created or destroyed. S5
Reply
#11
Grizzly, the mind is not energy or matter, it is information and a self-organizing awareness.

To me it makes more sense to inquire of Someone who knows what He is talking about--the Creator of sentient beings.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6)

“The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.” (Psalms 115:17)

“Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:3, 4)

“Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;” (Psalms 13:3)

Jesus said: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.” (John 11:11 to 14) Jesus then returned to Bethany and resurrected Lazarus after he had been dead for three days.

Throughout the Bible, the hope of the faithful is for the resurrection from the dead at the Second Coming of Christ. (See 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.) God remembers all those who die, and whenever He wishes to, He can restore the body and place the original mind with the original sense of identity back into the body, so the original person who lived before lives again. But until this is done, the mind has no awareness of any kind, including the passage of time. There is no consciousness in death. You have to have a brain to think with, to process sensory input, etc.
Reply
#12
(02-16-2014, 07:25 PM)Ron Lambert Wrote: Grizzly, the mind is not energy or matter, it is information and a self-organizing awareness.
What is the information, Ron? I mean how is it processed and transported throughout your body? Does it use paper? But wait a minute. What moves the paper or the words on it?

What is the brain and the body made up of? You mean to tell me the body uses no electricity whatsoever? Science hasn't even properly defined consciousness yet, but you, Ron, know what it is and where it's located--even that it's made up of information, yet you fail to describe what the information is exactly or how it is processed, used and retained. Where is the consciousness located in the brain? Scientists are in a quandary over the location, but naturally you found it. S17

There has been cases where people have died and were considered brain dead and yet they come back to tell of things they experienced and saw, but you perceive the human being as being something like the latest Dell or Apple computer. Surely I hope you believe the human being to be above a computer? Does a computer have consciousness? In other words does it know it exists and have a theory on why it's here? Does it remember emotional moments?

Are we not made up of atoms, subatomic particles? Are there no charges in the aforementioned? How can a single particle pass through two slits at the same time?

I'm sorry. Perhaps you can ask Ken Ham, who even Pat Robertson thought was unbelievable, to tell all of science where consciousness is located?

You may say "in the brain"? But therein lies the puzzle. Where at in the brain? Scientist has removed numerous sections of brains in mice, yet those creatures still remember how to get to food inside mazes. How in the world do the mice do it? Does consciousness move? If so, than what's moving memories, thoughts, emotions?

(02-16-2014, 07:25 PM)Ron Lambert Wrote: "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6)

“The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.” (Psalms 115:17)

“Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:3, 4)

“Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;” (Psalms 13:3)

Jesus said: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.” (John 11:11 to 14) Jesus then returned to Bethany and resurrected Lazarus after he had been dead for three days.
Reread all of the quote, Ron. Do you know what the Bible was describing? It was describing dead bodies where the energy left; the energy didn't die, Ron; it left the corporeal.

Lazarus wasn't able to physically praise the Lord until the Lord brought his consciousness (or some call it the spirit, soul.) back to him.

In my opinion, Ron, Biocentrism only proves what the Bible says; not disprove it.
Reply
#13
Should this be in the Religion & Philosophy section?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#14
(02-16-2014, 10:30 PM)John L Wrote: Should this be in the Religion & Philosophy section?
You bring up an excellent point, John. I can see where all three could be interwoven: science, religion and philosophy. S5
Reply
#15
Well, let's move it over then, shall we? Ron is getting cranked up, and whipping out the scripture here. So that means religion to me. S13
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#16
(02-16-2014, 10:59 PM)John L Wrote: Well, let's move it over. Ron is getting cranked up, and whipping out the scripture here. So that means religion to me. S13
Who?!!! Ron?!!! S3 S6
Reply
#17
John L, I cite the Bible because that is where I find the best, most consistent and intelligent answers to the most important questions of life and reality and existence.

Grizzly, information can be encoded in magnetic patterns on a disk drive. No energy needed, until it is time to activate the information storage so it can be utilized. Giving the magnetic medium information-containing patterns does not add or subtract from the mass of the disk. The pattern still exists as a potential even when the electricitry for the computer is turned off.

Note that those Bible quotes I provided were not talking merely about the body, they talk about the person, the thoughts, the emotions, etc. These cease at death. There is nothing ambiguous about the passages I quoted. They are explicit.

Some people in my church liken life to electricity in a light bulb, where the light bulb is the body, and the electricity is the energizing spirit, and the two together (the lit up light bulb) is the soul. I personally feel this is inadequate, however. It creates too many theological problems, not only in the nature of man but also in Christilogy--how could Christ be truly human yet truly divine, when all the Holy Spirit placed in the embryo in Mary's womb was a divine Spirit? If He were given new or unique DNA, then He would not be truly human, and that would have disqualified Him from being our Saviour.

Any way, as I see it, there must be an essential identity, an essential unique self, in the spirit of life that animates each person. That is the only way that the actual, original person who died can be resurrected to live again (God keeps the spirit of life with the essential identity and unique self in some kind of storage.) Otherwise, there is no way to be sure that the resurrected "soul" is not merely a physical copy of the original body, with a duplicate set of memories, that only thinks it is the original person. If God is not perpetrating a fraud when He promises us resurrection from the dead, then there has to be an essential identity or self in the spirit of life. Likewise, how could the Son of God become incarnated as the Son of Man--how could the pre-existent Son of God be joined to the embryo in Mary's womb?

At least that is how I figure it. You might say, I believe in literal "soul sleep." Or suspended animation. The potential for us as individuals to live again remains with God, as long as He remembers us. It is when God finally ceases to remember the wicked, that they endure the "second death"--eternal cessation of existence.
Reply
#18
(02-17-2014, 01:02 AM)Ron Lambert Wrote: John L, I cite the Bible because that is where I find the best, most consistent and intelligent answers to the most important questions of life and reality and existence.

Grizzly, information can be encoded in magnetic patterns on a disk drive. No energy needed, until it is time to activate the information storage so it can be utilized. Giving the magnetic medium information-containing patterns does not add or subtract from the mass of the disk. The pattern still exists as a potential even when the electricitry for the computer is turned off.

Note that those Bible quotes I provided were not talking merely about the body, they talk about the person, the thoughts, the emotions, etc. These cease at death. There is nothing ambiguous about the passages I quoted. They are explicit.

Some people in my church liken life to electricity in a light bulb, where the light bulb is the body, and the electricity is the energizing spirit, and the two together (the lit up light bulb) is the soul. I personally feel this is inadequate, however. It creates too many theological problems, not only in the nature of man but also in Christilogy--how could Christ be truly human yet truly divine, when all the Holy Spirit placed in the embryo in Mary's womb was a divine Spirit? If He were given new or unique DNA, then He would not be truly human, and that would have disqualified Him from being our Saviour.

Any way, as I see it, there must be an essential identity, an essential unique self, in the spirit of life that animates each person. That is the only way that the actual, original person who died can be resurrected to live again (God keeps the spirit of life with the essential identity and unique self in some kind of storage.) Otherwise, there is no way to be sure that the resurrected "soul" is not merely a physical copy of the original body, with a duplicate set of memories, that only thinks it is the original person. If God is not perpetrating a fraud when He promises us resurrection from the dead, then there has to be an essential identity or self in the spirit of life. Likewise, how could the Son of God become incarnated as the Son of Man--how could the pre-existent Son of God be joined to the embryo in Mary's womb?

At least that is how I figure it. You might say, I believe in literal "soul sleep." Or suspended animation. The potential for us as individuals to live again remains with God, as long as He remembers us. It is when God finally ceases to remember the wicked, that they endure the "second death"--eternal cessation of existence.
I was actually considering a lengthy response to this like in post #12, but I will never get my minutes back. (Note to John: just keep the thread where it's at even though I knew Ron was going to start discussing science; he will just go back to religion in the next post. One day you may wish to merge science, religion and philosophy together and place a warning: reader must figure out which one is being discussed.) S17
Reply
#19
I like that Robert. You may be on to something there. S1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#20
In college there was a course offered: "Philosophy of Science." It was in the theology department. When you get down to it, ultimately science also requires a system of beliefs, including the basic proposition that natural laws can be counted on to remain unchanging, so that experimental results can be repeated to get the same, confirming results. Historically, this belief system was predicated on the Creationist view that God ordained and maintains natural laws. Even the most extreme atheistic mechanistic materialist "scientist" every day must do science on the basis of the Creationist view of the universe. Ask such a person how he knows that natural laws will not change abruptly and arbitrarily at random from one day to the next, and he will have no answer for you. He is afraid to even go there.

Apart from religion, there is no way to even address the questions of ultimate origins and of the constancy of natural laws. These are surely the most important questions that can be asked. There are some questions about the ultimate nature of reality that require that you must inquire of the Creator. Any other attempt is illogical. No answers are available anywhere by any means, other than by consulting with the Creator. So I must ask, can the arbitrary exclusion of such considerations really be "scientific"? The word science means knowledge. Can there even be any valid knowledge apart from certainty of what is truth? And who, apart from the Creator, can be certain what is truth?
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)