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Turkey and the PKK
#21
Erdogan sending the message I see. Vlad the impaler stuck dead Turk soldiers onto fence posts in his era, same difference. Turks stuck Serb heads onto a little memorial in Serbia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_Tower

Same people they always have been and I for one have no desire to ally with them ever again.
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#22
Today Erdogan recieved the decoration of the Order of Leopold from the the King of Belgium. (sorry no link) This is beyond ridiculous. Many angry poeple on social networks.
Nobody understand what our governement is doing...
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#23
(10-06-2015, 06:56 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Today Erdogan recieved the decoration of the Order of Leopold from the the King of Belgium. (sorry no link) This is beyond ridiculous. Many angry poeple on social networks.
Nobody understand what our governement is doing...

I'm really sorry to hear that Fred. Aww
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#24
At least it sounds like they are not catering to his every whim ... Great quote at the end of the article.

Quote:Back in Brussels, Mr. Erdogan said “We need to live in peace with Kurdish people.” But he did not develop that idea further.

I wonder if he means the "rest in" kinda 'peace' ?? S24
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#25
(10-06-2015, 08:05 PM)mr_yak Wrote: At least it sounds like they are not catering to his every whim ... Great quote at the end of the article.

Quote:Back in Brussels, Mr. Erdogan said “We need to live in peace with Kurdish people.” But he did not develop that idea further.

I wonder if he means the "rest in" kinda 'peace' ?? S24

I think the "did not develop that idea further" was his way of not finishing the sentence with "as long as they do what I tell them to do."
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#26
Everything I read about what Russia is doing in Syria I agree with. I wish we were doing it instead.

How this all works out, IMO, will be based on how advanced the Russki have become relative to the technical air superiority we have held since 1990. If they have figured out some stuff, this will get interesting fast cause Turkey is being challenged more than anyone here including us, IMO:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/10/06/russi...ger-seems/
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#27
(10-07-2015, 11:13 AM)Palladin Wrote: Everything I read about what Russia is doing in Syria I agree with. I wish we were doing it instead.

[b]How this all works out, IMO, will be based on how advanced the Russki have become relative to the technical air superiority we have held since 1990.[b] If they have figured out some stuff, this will get interesting fast cause Turkey is being challenged more than anyone here including us, IMO:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/10/06/russi...ger-seems/

PLEASE TAKE YOUR TIME WITH THIS. Don't race or skim, ok?

The problem with Russia, via he Soviets, via the Tsars, is that they have a completely different view of reality than we do. Russians are more interested in appearance fist, and technology second. With the US, it is just the opposite.

I've stated over and over about just how shitty their armored vehicles were and still are. The brand new tank, which has only reached Red Square parades, is a typical Russian compromise between accomplishment of mission and protecting the investment of the personnel. Russia has compromised on this by showcasing a two man tank, with both of them sitting in the very front, where the frontal slope can offer more protection. This leaves the turret to work on automatic, with that dreaded auto-loader mechanism.

Only this time, the loader is now absent. Its only a machine back there. Now, that may seem great, but lets say you are in the middle of a huge tank battle, and you(tank commander) see an enemy tank that needs taking out. You sight in and pull the electronic trigger, and you don't hear any sound, or feel any recoil. In other words, the round either didn't load properly, or it was a mechanical failure.

What are you going to do? You are up front, protected from that two piece round. By the time you manage to open the safety door, crawl back within all that machinery, and then straighten out the screwup, its too late to take that tank out. In fact, the odds are that same tank has taken you out.

Now, lets relate this to their incursion into Syria, where pictures(which they let out to the public) are destroying the target. Or is it the real target? How do we know that? What makes you think their technology is good enough to even try to approach ours?

The Russians are the world's best at organized theft. They eat, sleep, and breathe stealing from others. Its how they manage to keep what passes for an appearance of parity.

The problem with the US is that the movers and shakers tend to compare the Russians with our own capability. But here is the 64 million dollar question. If they are so advanced, how are they able to produce such huge numbers of these great items in their inventory? After all, they cost so much here, so why are the Russians able to turn out what looks equal to ours much cheaper? Is their economy more efficient?

Long story short, they can't. They compromise and place numbers and appearance at the top, and performance second. And for them the later is more than good enough, when the hordes move out. But the only trouble with that is that there are no longer any hordes now. They are stumbling into the 21st century and weighing what they believe to be more important.

Hey, as long as it causes the West to have heartburn, fear, and uncertainty, that may well be more than enough. S5

Also, where they are operating, air superiority is only relative to the location. As long as they only intimidate the US, and don't have to fire a shot, its a huge plus. But just let one of them actually get trigger happy, and starting shooting. I'm sure that person will be gone in a heartbeat, and answering to Duckbutt.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#28
As for Russia and Syria, I say let them exhaust themselves, at the same time their economy is in the Crapper and getting worse. We are about to have our own problems, and will need a leg up. That's why I am not all that worried about Russia there.

As for Erdogan, what a total waste of unorganized protoplasm.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#29
John,

I think that's too dangerous a generalization. They would not just be fools, they would be damned fools not to have spent lots of time and cash trying to change the air superiority paradigm we've enjoyed probably since the 1970s.

In Korea, we were not superior clearly to their stuff, we lost a lot of aircraft. In Vietnam, we lost tons to ground based AA fire, almost all our POWs were pilots.

Agreed we've enjoyed superiority since the 1970s, but, we've also shown our hand a lot and I think they would not be so aggressive if they haven't made up some ground.

If they haven't , they are beyond fools. I could have figured out some stuff between 1995 and now just by reading public material and listening to our blowhard spokesmen during combat.
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#30
(10-07-2015, 02:44 PM)Palladin Wrote: ...I think they would not be so aggressive if they haven't made up some ground.

Maybe, but the strategy they pursue is not necessarily to win but to just mix it up enough to make the other guy back down.

The strategy would work against a Carter or an Obama, but not against a Reagan. The mere presence of our next election is enough to scare the crap out of them. I think it's obvious Putin wants to gain as much high ground as he can against Obama, so that he will start with an advantage against whomever comes next.
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#31
(10-07-2015, 02:44 PM)Palladin Wrote: If they haven't , they are beyond fools. I could have figured out some stuff between 1995 and now just by reading public material and listening to our blowhard spokesmen during combat.

No, its the Russian mind set. They would rather have something, no matter what, that looks like it is the biggest, baddest thing, for shock value. I'm surprised they don't have Flying Tiger art on all their aircraft. S13

If you are going to have the latest technology, what good does it do to have that and not be able to maintain it, or even be able to fix it when it breaks down. Their jet engines only last about half the flight hours as our. Their vehicles have engines that are also less dependable.

Having the very best in the world also costs the very most in the world. They just don't think it is worth it in the long run. Its much better to trail behind a bit, steal all you can, which means you don't have to spend all that money on research, and use something that has already been proven reliable. Or so they think.

Like that author of "The Threat" stated, they even take the less reliable and go with it too, because we went with it. The best example is that "swing wing" crap we came out with and have since thrown out, into the trash. They are still using that technology. And its costing them dearly, cost wise.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#32
I forgot this little tidbit.

(10-07-2015, 02:44 PM)Palladin Wrote: Agreed we've enjoyed superiority since the 1970s, but, we've also shown our hand a lot and I think they would not be so aggressive if they haven't made up some ground.

What's this "1970s" stuff? We've always enjoyed superiority with the Soviets and now the Russians. Did the Soviets supply us with convoys of war material, food, and all sorts of things during WWII? Did they give us fighter aircraft, and military vehicles to make up for their shortages?

As for being aggressive, they are doing that because of the weakness of McDaddy. He's a certified Pussy, and is only good at shooting off his mouth. I'd be aggressive against him too.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#33
(10-07-2015, 05:07 PM)WmLambert Wrote:
(10-07-2015, 02:44 PM)Palladin Wrote: ...I think they would not be so aggressive if they haven't made up some ground.

Maybe, but the strategy they pursue is not necessarily to win but to just mix it up enough to make the other guy back down.

There is a good dose of "domestic consumption" mixed in with the making the other guy back down part. Living standards in Russia are beginning to circle the bowl ... at a rate much worse than here. Inflation is close to 16% ... wages are declining, their economy is shrinking, their military are dying by the thousands in 'accidents' that provide only 'secret' solace to their grieving families, their civil liberties are being dialed back to the Soviet era, little or no investment, rampant corruption. Yet their unique 'patriotism' provides the ultimate opportunity to overlook all that sh*t and still feel proud of themselves.

This excursion into Syria seems much less about 'winning' than propping up both the Assad regime and the price of oil ... poking Obama in the eye in the process is just gravy.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#34
Jack, I agree with your assessment above.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#35
Yak,

I agree Putin is using his Syrian intervention for home pr campaigning. Having said that, they're in to win and have a longer view than Americans do.

I don't buy the view John and William express. Assuming they effectively have M 1 rifles against our arsenal is a fatal error.

Russians are not living in unreality, they have known since 1995 that the US will do whatever it wants as long as it has air superiority and to shut that down is the main strategic step anyone needs to take along with countering our naval superiority( which I am not confident we possess).

They have had 20 years of observing us and we've done a great job of crowing about what we can do and how we do it. With their population and education system, there is no reason to assume they haven't made technical advancements in air assets, cruise missile tech, etc.

I wish The Syrian Army and the Russki well in this campaign and find it laughable we're all worked up over it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/syr...story.html
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#36
(10-08-2015, 05:37 PM)Palladin Wrote: I don't buy the view John and William express.

And which view is that supposed to be?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#37
That Russians are effectively mentally retarded. Did you forget your posts?
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#38
(10-08-2015, 11:40 PM)Palladin Wrote: That Russians are effectively mentally retarded. Did you forget your posts?

I never, ever, stated they were mentally retarded. Where do you come up with this stuff? You must be thinking of some other mother.

I stated that they have a different mind-set on things. And they do. But that's not the same thing.

This is why I question your retention with written things, and believe you skim most of the time. And I don't think you are mentally retarded either. Your problem is obviously different.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#39
Palladin Wrote:Everything I read about what Russia is doing in Syria I agree with. I wish we were doing it instead.
I don't understand you!

First you bash the US because they create havoc in the M-E, now that Russia is fixing to doing the same, you wish the US to do it too... (and after you ask John and me not to enquire about the medical result of your last brain MRI...)

If the Russians want to go there, please let them go!
JohnL Wrote:As for Russia and Syria, I say let them exhaust themselves

Now the Iraqis are preparing to introduce a demand to Putin for military aid and air support. And why not russian soldiers too?
If Putin wants to enter this game, it will be the end of his Empire (the Grave of Empires extend from Pakistan to Syria now).

IMO it's very good that the Iraqis are disapointed by the lack of US military support, especialy by the air strikes on ISIL. It's about time they fight themselves, and if they can't or don't wan't, that ask somebody else to do it. Putin is so obsessed by proving his military might that he is able to accept.

We always assumed that Junior's invasion of Iraq was the most disastrous event ever, and by far. Putin could do even better. Did they stop IS near Allepo?

US disengagement goes one step further

I wonder if the americans knows to whom they are giving weapons or they just drop some more there at random just to add troubles for Russian, Assad and Iran?

Also interresting how fast left over humvees and other equipements from Iraq have been exhausted. There were massive amounts of weapons left in this region + Ghaddafy's arsenals but it still necessary to send even more weapons?

WmL Wrote:I think it's obvious Putin wants to gain as much high ground as he can against Obama, so that he will start with an advantage against whomever comes next.
You realy think that the next POTUS will be more significant on the world stage? IMO, whomever comes next it will be more of the same.

I don't see any reason why the US should engage in yet one more massive war operation there, excluding extreme stupidity. Especialy if the Russians are deplyed there. IMO if you want to hurt Russia and Putin's power that's exactely what you want. Just let them lose a trillion dollars in that area. You don't even need to do anything. The best is not to go there yourself. Arabs do the job very well. To anyone coming to them, even.

I expect Russia to lose as much as the US under Junior, proportionaly to the amounts invested.

Palladin Wrote:they're in to win and have a longer view than Americans do.
[Image: rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif]


JL Wrote:The best example is that "swing wing" crap we came out with and have since thrown out, into the trash. They are still using that technology. And its costing them dearly, cost wise.
What is "swing wing"?
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#40
(10-09-2015, 05:30 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Also interresting how fast left over humvees and other equipements from Iraq have been exhausted. There were massive amounts of weapons left in this region + Ghaddafy's arsenals but it still necessary to send even more weapons?

They lack both the education, or ability, to perform preventive maintenance on them. They fall apart when not taken care of. S18

Quote:
JL Wrote:The best example is that "swing wing" crap we came out with and have since thrown out, into the trash. They are still using that technology. And its costing them dearly, cost wise.
What is "swing wing"?

Swing wing, which is also called Swept Wing, technology is one that mechanically moves the wing in and out, depending on the aircraft's speed. It all looks great on paper, but is outrageously expensive, time consuming, and a mechanic's nightmare.

The sheer weight of the mechanisms used make the aircraft at a bare minimum, to weigh 25-35% more than a counterpart without all that equipment. Look at this:

   

   

   

   

Can you just imagine all those added parts, extra weight, and the overall cost of fuel, and spare parts necessary to keep them operational? And imagine how responsive an aircraft would be, having to compete against a lighter jet? If a jet weighed all that much extra, that's less munitions they can carry.

Talk about Charlie Foxtrots. And those Brilliant Russians actually ate all the hype, and just had to steal it from the West. Well, the last laugh was on them. S13
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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