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Dark Ages Caused by Celestial Comet?
#41
Oh, ok Ron.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#42
Here's more scholarly work, concerning scientific evidence connecting comets and the onset of a Real Dark Age event.

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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#43
Rodney Stark in How Christianity (and Capitalism) Led to Science presents the accepted and unargued true history that is unreported in school books. Look at the German sociologist Max Weber's famous diatribe against religion. Sure, you can talk about an undark age in the 1500's - but what about St. Augustine (c. 354-430) who flatly asserted that through the application of reason we will gain an increasingly more accurate understanding of God, remarking that although there are "certain matters pertaining to the doctrine of salvation that we cannot yet grasp ... one day we shall be able to do so."

Augustine went on at length about the "wonderful — one might say stupefying — advances human industry has made." All were attributed to the "unspeakable boon" that God has conferred upon his creation, a "rational nature." Those views were repeated again and again through the centuries. Especially typical were these words preached by Fra Giordano, in Florence in 1306: "Not all the arts have been found; we shall never see an end of finding them."

Stark Wrote:Christian faith in reason and in progress was the foundation on which Western success was achieved. As the distinguished philosopher Alfred North Whitehead put it during one of his Lowell Lectures at Harvard in 1925, science arose only in Europe because only there did people think that science could be done and should be done, a faith "derivative from medieval theology."

Moreover the medieval Christian faith in reason and progress was constantly reinforced by actual progress, by technical and organizational innovations, many of them fostered by Christianity. For the past several centuries, far too many of us have been misled by the incredible fiction that, from the fall of Rome until about the 15th century, Europe was submerged in the Dark Ages — centuries of ignorance, superstition, and misery — from which it was suddenly, almost miraculously, rescued; first by the Renaissance and then by the Enlightenment. But, as even dictionaries and encyclopedias recently have begun to acknowledge, it was all a lie!

As the distinguished philosopher Alfred North Whitehead put it during one of his Lowell Lectures at Harvard in 1925, science arose only in Europe because only there did people think that science could be done and should be done, a faith "derivative from medieval theology."
It was during the so-called Dark Ages that European technology and science overtook and surpassed the rest of the world. Some of that involved original inventions and discoveries; some of it came from Asia. But what was so remarkable was the way that the full capacities of new technologies were recognized and widely adopted. By the 10th century Europe already was far ahead in terms of farming equipment and techniques, had unmatched capacities in the use of water and wind power, and possessed superior military equipment and tactics. Not to be overlooked in all that medieval progress was the invention of a whole new way to organize and operate commerce and industry: capitalism.

Remember - one of the main reasons the Church has as much power as it did, was becauuse it fostered technological advancs.
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#44
So Bill, was the Dark Ages really begun by one or more impactors/comets? I think that was the point here.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#45
As far as Dark Ages as a time of lack of learning and enlightenment is concerned - there was no Dark Ages. As far as lack of sunlight - I've read about the Thames freezing over, and such things - but not much about crops not growing because of lack of growing seasons. One reason is because, even with possible light starvation, technology accelerated and made everything more productive.
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#46
You still aren't answering the direct question Bill. Are you skeptical of a celestial object causing this?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#47
If there was no "this" then what does anything have to do with causing it? There were impactors throughout history and they all contributed to the weather, local or global. Dark Ages? To me its a non-sequitur.
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#48
And in spite of Bill's lack of interest in the possibility of the Dark Ages really having celestial roots, the astronomy field just doesn't seem to agree. So here is more on that unusual period of time, when western civilization underwent a very strange upheaval.

Gamma-ray burst (may have) 'hit Earth in 8th Century'

Quote:A gamma ray burst, the most powerful explosion known in the Universe, may have hit the Earth in the 8th Century.

In 2012 researchers found evidence that our planet had been struck by a blast of radiation during the Middle Ages, but there was debate over what kind of cosmic event could have caused this.

And here's more: A signature of cosmic-ray increase in AD 774-775 from tree rings in Japan.

Causes of an ad 774–775 14C increase



While its almost certain something big happened at that time, there is still speculation as to just what. But we are closing in on the truth. The celestial influence is just too important to dismiss so easily.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#49
(01-10-2014, 08:34 PM)WmLambert Wrote: As far as Dark Ages as a time of lack of learning and enlightenment is concerned - there was no Dark Ages. As far as lack of sunlight - I've read about the Thames freezing over, and such things - but not much about crops not growing because of lack of growing seasons. One reason is because, even with possible light starvation, technology accelerated and made everything more productive.

Are we talking about the Little Ice Age which ended in the mid-Late 1800s?
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#50
(01-29-2014, 04:04 PM)Paul In Sweden Wrote:
(01-10-2014, 08:34 PM)WmLambert Wrote: As far as Dark Ages as a time of lack of learning and enlightenment is concerned - there was no Dark Ages. As far as lack of sunlight - I've read about the Thames freezing over, and such things - but not much about crops not growing because of lack of growing seasons. One reason is because, even with possible light starvation, technology accelerated and made everything more productive.

Are we talking about the Little Ice Age which ended in the mid-Late 1800s?

Paul, Bill refuses to harbour the idea that actual natural events could have influenced humans to the extent it would be permanently etched in our lore. In other words, the Dark Ages are really just a figment of our imagination.

But the science doesn't sit still, and the evidence of one or more celestial events actually did cause a terrible climatic change to planetary climate, and how it influenced human thinking.

So remember the thing about "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus" idea, Bill is thinking apples, and the science is thinking oranges.

Also, rather than address things head-on, Bill is really big at waltzing around a topic, like one sees in politicians when they attempt to address something. S5
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#51
(01-10-2014, 08:34 PM)WmLambert Wrote: I've read about the Thames freezing over, and such things - but not much about crops not growing because of lack of growing seasons.

William, I have read many science papers on this topic. This was the first one that I found in my knee jerk google query, it is very simplified, there are many more. I probably have much better saved on disks sitting in my closet. but this one explains the known crop failures during the extended Little Ice Age Period.
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#52
And here is more Dark Ages related paper:
Mysterious abrupt carbon-14 increase in
coral contributed by a comet.

[Image: Screen-Shot-2014-01-21-at-12.37.31-PM-1024x531.png]
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#53
I guess my point is a bit subtle. "Dark Ages" is not used in history to describe short growing seasons. I admit the fluctuations in that - I mentioned the Thames freezing over. "Dark Ages: is a pejorative term engineered by recent compilers of textbooks to entitle a period when the Church stood in the way of progress. It was a darkness that came after an enlightenment.

That "diminution of science" is a canard. Technology and science only accelerated in those times - it did not wither on the vine.

Part of my outrage over the term is that as the world population grew, and growing seasons changed, and old agricultural practices came up short, it was the increase in science and technology that bridged that gap and fed the world.
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#54
(02-06-2014, 11:02 PM)WmLambert Wrote: "Dark Ages: is a pejorative term engineered by recent compilers of textbooks to entitle a period when the Church stood in the way of progress. It was a darkness that came after an enlightenment.

ummmm.... No!

I think you will find that if you crack open a history book that the dark ages were not when the church stood in the way of progress but instead when the Holy Roman Empire fell to the barbarian hoards and much of the Western world reverted to local feudalism.

Light did not shine upon the Dark Ages until surprisingly enough due no small part to the patronage of the Catholic CHURCH did the arts of the Renaissance soar to such great heights.
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#55
What a non-PC thing to say! Be ashamed! Church role in the Renaissance is like Medieval Climate Optimum, darn nuisance to be ignored.
Sodomia delenda est

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#56
From an earlier essay:

Quote:The entire "Dark ages" is a crock. Christianity actually inspired science. There was no science in ancient Greece or Rome. Aristotle thought the weight of objects were proportional to the speed with which they dropped. A simple test by dropping two different weights off a cliff never occurred to him. Guesswork without empiricism is not science. It was only at the birth of Christianity, that a wise God appeared who fostered the idea that science could be done and should be done. The Church understood there was a duty to understand God's handiwork, the better to marvel at it.

As for a time of barbarism, superstition, and widespread ignorance - there was no "Dark Ages." The march of progress was sure and steady, and sparked by the Christian concept of the world as an understandable creation following understandable laws which needed to be studied. The phrase, "Dark Ages," was a myth, first used in the early 19th century by atheists to claim credit for a sudden "enlightenment" that occurred against the Church's wishes. In fact it was the Church that fostered science. Quintus Tertullian instructed in the second century, "Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason — nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason." The success of the West, including the rise of science, rested entirely on religious foundations, and the people who brought it about were devout Christians.

Yet, every good Liberal knows Gibbons wrote The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and blamed the Fall of Rome and the rise of barbarism on Christianity. Historians disagree - yet the schools still distort the truth. The New Columbia Encyclopedia (1975) says the term "Dark Ages" is no longer used by historians because this era is no longer thought to have been so dim. The Encyclopedia Britannica concurs.

During the era of Classical Greece, neoPlatonism originated, a philosophy which merged Plato's philosophy with Indian pantheism. Plotinus taught that the world was an "emanation" or radiation of being from a nonpersonal Spirit or Absolute--somewhat as light is a radiation from the sun. This is New-Age religion. The Godhead is unknowable, pure and good; the farther away one is the more evil and base. This religion only subscibes to ascetic practices that suppress bodily desires that liberate the spirit and allows it to be reabsorbed into the infinite essence. Through the years, Neo-Platonism has become a a mystical religion, crafted in part to counter Christianity. In some aspects it has merged with Christianity.

But here we are... products of strong disinformation that tells us religion engenders ignorance and is anti-science - when true history claims Christianity is the single catalyst that sparked and promoted science. A famous poll taken in Darwin's day found that almost all celebrated scientists, including Darwin, were deeply religious. Eighty-four years later, the same poll showed exactly the same results. Modern scientists are profoundly religious.

Paul you said: "...if you crack open a history book that the dark ages were not when the church stood in the way of progress but instead when the Holy Roman Empire fell to the barbarian hoards and much of the Western world reverted to local feudalism."

You are falling prey to the disinformation from Gibbons. There was no diminution of knowledge and technology as the hordes overran Rome. There was ever an upward growth of enlightenment. Remember, Ancient Greece and Rome did not have science. That originated later and has progressed steadily. If a whimsical God like Zeus or Jupiter could change the way things work with no consistency - why would any intellectual ever establish and use the scientific principle? Why actually test how fast objects fall if they could be different tomorrow?

Please refer to actual historians instead of the novelists. There is a reason the encyclopedias all expunged the term "Dark Ages" from accepted histories.
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