Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pearl Harbor
#1
Pearl Harbor day tomorrow. Flags at half mast if you fly one.
I won't say anything about those sneaky bastar-s that slaughtered
so many. :x
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for anything, but you can't help smiling when you push one down the stairs.
Reply
#2
What was sneaky about it? They exposed a very serious weakness at a time we should have been at our most ready. They attacked a legitimate military target and took advantage of some very poor policy decisions. Had Roosevelt beefed up the Philippines when MacArthur was screaming for resupply, the Japanese may not have acted so aggressively.

This should be a lesson in today's times that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Reply
#3
Surely you aren't saying we deserved this.
Did we deserve 9-11 also because "They exposed a very serious weakness at a time we should have been at our most ready."
Can't be. :?
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for anything, but you can't help smiling when you push one down the stairs.
Reply
#4
Actually, there was some evidence that the officers at the white house knew ten days before the attack. And the white house knew, and meant to warn the people at Pearl Harbor but the warning came too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbo...dge_debate

http://www.pearlharbor.org/history-of-pearl-harbor.asp

so it was a surprise only for the american citizens but not for the American officials back in the white house.
Quote: “A society that puts equality… ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality or freedom…a society that puts freedom first will, as a happy by-product, end up with both greater freedom and greater equality.” --Milton Friedman
relax. it's only the internet!
Reply
#5
tegu Wrote:Surely you aren't saying we deserved this.
Did we deserve 9-11 also because "They exposed a very serious weakness at a time we should have been at our most ready."
Can't be. :?

Yes, we deserved 9/11. It is the natural order of things that the strong dominate the weak. Our PC weakness assures us of future attacks. It also assures the almost complete eradication of Islam in the future. The fight, once it starts, will be short and very very bloody.
Reply
#6
Aurora Moon Wrote:Actually, there was some evidence that the officers at the white house knew ten days before the attack. And the white house knew, and meant to warn the people at Pearl Harbor but the warning came too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbo...dge_debate

http://www.pearlharbor.org/history-of-pearl-harbor.asp

so it was a surprise only for the american citizens but not for the American officials back in the white house.

Blah. What did we benefit from Pearl Harbor?

To me, its the same as the nut cases who think Bush perpetrated 9/11.
Reply
#7
is this a joke question? apart from hawaii, there was no fighting on your soil, no destruction. your economy exploded, finally getting over the great depression. the government could spend unlimited funds. you rose from a backwater to the world's leading nation in four years only, not only on the expense of the losers of ww2, but also the british and french empires. for some time, you could dictate what the greater part of the world was doing, see korea war. and you assured that socialism emerged victorious over nationalism.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Reply
#8
Sorry but I am trying to figure out where all this is headed. #-o
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#9
ghoullio Wrote:
Aurora Moon Wrote:Actually, there was some evidence that the officers at the white house knew ten days before the attack. And the white house knew, and meant to warn the people at Pearl Harbor but the warning came too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbo...dge_debate

http://www.pearlharbor.org/history-of-pearl-harbor.asp

so it was a surprise only for the american citizens but not for the American officials back in the white house.

Blah. What did we benefit from Pearl Harbor?

To me, its the same as the nut cases who think Bush perpetrated 9/11.

Not saying that the white house benefited from it.

remember... back then we didn't even have e-mail and stuff. We could only telegraph or mail letters.

They meant to stop it by having the people at pearl harbor be on high alert. However, the information and the warning they sent arrived too late to do any good.

Besides, I hate to say it but in a way Q is correct.... there wasn't hardly much fighting on American soil, and most lives lost were that of the military.

And what did we do in response? We built detention camps for the Japanese-Americans, who had been loyal to America for the most part and had nothing to do with Japan aside from having been from there genetically. a fair amount of them died in those camps, thanks to poor living conditions or being shot by sentries.

Oh, and we also bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki..... all dead.

I think Japan already paid for their tactical strike a hundred times over, don't you think?

so maybe it's just time to get over it and move on. Especially knowing that we've pretty much handed out enough of the disproportionate punishments. We made them suffer much worse than we ever did in pearl harbor.

it was more than just a "eye for an eye deal", that's for sure.
Quote: “A society that puts equality… ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality or freedom…a society that puts freedom first will, as a happy by-product, end up with both greater freedom and greater equality.” --Milton Friedman
relax. it's only the internet!
Reply
#10
quadrat Wrote:is this a joke question? apart from hawaii, there was no fighting on your soil, no destruction. your economy exploded, finally getting over the great depression. the government could spend unlimited funds. you rose from a backwater to the world's leading nation in four years only, not only on the expense of the losers of ww2, but also the british and french empires. for some time, you could dictate what the greater part of the world was doing, see korea war. and you assured that socialism emerged victorious over nationalism.

As a shudder creeps it's way up my spine, as if someone were stepping on my grave, I feel noxious that I find myself agreeing with Quadrat on this one.

WWII was our defining moment, and still 60+ years later we hold ourselves up to the men and women who lived and died in that time, frustrated knowing that we will never be as good as them.
Reply
#11
John L Wrote:Sorry but I am trying to figure out where all this is headed. #-o

Who cares, it's an interesting discussion...
Reply
#12
ghoullio Wrote:
John L Wrote:Sorry but I am trying to figure out where all this is headed. #-o

Who cares, it's an interesting discussion...

You may be correct. But I have a highly tuned sense of curiosity. Can't help myself. :?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#13
For anyone who thinks there was more to Pearl Harbor than meets the eye, there is this: Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor.

Quote:From Publishers Weekly
Historians have long debated whether President Roosevelt had advance knowledge of Japan's December 7, 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor. Using documents pried loose through the Freedom of Information Act during 17 years of research, Stinnett provides overwhelming evidence that FDR and his top advisers knew that Japanese warships were heading toward Hawaii. The heart of his argument is even more inflammatory: Stinnett argues that FDR, who desired to sway public opinion in support of U.S. entry into WWII, instigated a policy intended to provoke a Japanese attack. The plan was outlined in a U.S. Naval Intelligence secret strategy memo of October 1940; Roosevelt immediately began implementing its eight steps (which included deploying U.S. warships in Japanese territorial waters and imposing a total embargo intended to strangle Japan's economy), all of which, according to Stinnett, climaxed in the Japanese attack. Stinnett, a decorated naval veteran of WWII who served under then Lt. George Bush, substantiates his charges with a wealth of persuasive documents, including many government and military memos and transcripts. Demolishing the myth that the Japanese fleet maintained strict radio silence, he shows that several Japanese naval broadcasts, intercepted by American cryptographers in the 10 days before December 7, confirmed that Japan intended to start the war at Pearl Harbor. Stinnett convincingly demonstrates that the U.S. top brass in Hawaii--Pacific Fleet commander Adm. Husband Kimmel and Lt. Gen. Walter Short--were kept out of the intelligence loop on orders from Washington and were then scapegoated for allegedly failing to anticipate the Japanese attack (in May 1999, the U.S. Senate cleared their names). Kimmel moved his fleet into the North Pacific, actively searching for the suspected Japanese staging area, but naval headquarters ordered him to turn back. Stinnett's meticulously researched book raises deeply troubling ethical issues. While he believes the deceit built into FDR's strategy was heinous, he nevertheless writes: "I sympathize with the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt. He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom." This, however, is an expression of understanding, not of absolution. If Stinnett is right, FDR has a lot to answer for--namely, the lives of those Americans who perished at Pearl Harbor. Stinnett establishes almost beyond question that the U.S. Navy could have at least anticipated the attack. The evidence that FDR himself deliberately provoked the attack is circumstantial, but convincing enough to make Stinnett's bombshell of a book the subject of impassioned debate in the months to come. (Dec.)

[Image: 0023df50_medium.jpeg]

The book, in epub format, is located right here. If epub is not your thing, you can alway go to one of several sites on the web, and have it converted into a choice of several different formats, including pdf or another.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#14
Poor FDR, if he had become POTUS in 1946, he wouldn't have needed to try and get us into a war and then destroy honorable men and lie, we'd have been braying for it.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)