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Turkey
#1
The "War Against Israel" thread became too overloaded, so perhaps it will be better to split off the Turkish issues that are not about Israel.

Turkey's cozy business with Iran

Quote:It becomes more apparent all the time that Turkey is a foe in the War for the Free World, between the forces of freedom and liberty and the forces of Shariah law and Jihad...

Turkey's alliance with Iran is a threat to world peace
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#2
Let's assume these opinions are fact based to their logical conclusion just for discussion(I hope they're wrong). It stands to reason the British will discern it before the Americans.

Our experiences with Turkey have been almost 100% excellent since our emergence as a global power,not 1 American is pre disposed to imagine Turkey becoming an enemy state,this is not true of the British and Europeans,Russians and Arabs.
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#3
Hmm... I'm not so sure the Brits can apply their experience from a hundred years ago.. but it well may be true that they do more thinking of Turkey because of the Muslim immigration to the EU and the discussions of EU membership that took place.

Let me add one more piece:

The Most Anti-American Nation

This is an oldie, from 2008, but more relevant now.
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#4
mv Wrote:Hmm... I'm not so sure the Brits can apply their experience from a hundred years ago.. but it well may be true that they do more thinking of Turkey because of the Muslim immigration to the EU and the discussions of EU membership that took place.

Let me add one more piece:

The Most Anti-American Nation

This is an oldie, from 2008, but more relevant now.

Boy, how prophetic. And it is just getting worse too. Newsweek actually got something right for once.

And if you stop to think about it, if you never heard anything positive about some country, would you tend to think positive of it?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#5
Source Watch states that

Quote:Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
From SourceWatch

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr., is president, CEO, and founder of the Center for Security Policy -- "a small think tank funded mainly by U.S. defence contractors, far-right foundations, and right-wing Zionists" [1]. Gaffney is considered to be a "neo-con" (neo-conservative).
Link: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit...ffney,_Jr.

Since Turkish and Israeli relations are at low point, and Israelis are in the process of flooding media with anti Turkish propaganda, I would not pay any attention to what a right-wing Zionists media states about Turkey S1
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#6
Very predictable, Kamil, this is why we look at different sources and compare. You will not be saying next that the evil Joos manufactured opinion polls in Turkey too? Wink1

Quote: Newsweek actually got something right for once.

What was it about the broken clock?
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#7
mv Wrote:
Quote:It becomes more apparent all the time that Turkey is a foe in the War for the Free World, between the forces of freedom and liberty and the forces of Shariah law and Jihad...
if that's a quote by a member of the american taliban, who just like their afghan brothers adhere slavishly to a holy book, hate modernity, rival religions, science, pleasure, love punishment, bullying, and bossy interference in every aspect of life, then this quote is sort of funny.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#8
Here's a problem I think in the old Ottoman empire. Maybe Turkey could help here?

HERE
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#9
Kamil Wrote:Source Watch states that

Quote:Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
From SourceWatch

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr., is president, CEO, and founder of the Center for Security Policy -- "a small think tank funded mainly by U.S. defence contractors, far-right foundations, and right-wing Zionists" [1]. Gaffney is considered to be a "neo-con" (neo-conservative).
Link: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?tit...ffney,_Jr.

Since Turkish and Israeli relations are at low point, and Israelis are in the process of flooding media with anti Turkish propaganda, I would not pay any attention to what a right-wing Zionists media states about Turkey S1

Two things here Kamil.

-First, we are not attacking Turkey with this. We are attacking Turkey's current leadership. Clearly it is leading Turkey in a direction that is not in it's best long term interests IMO.

-Second, I think you are making the mistake in believing that you are taking on the persona of the Turkish leadership, through empathy. We are not attacking you. So there is no need to highlight the Right Wing Zionist part. And as for Gaffney, I don't follow his religion, but will take your word on him being a Jew.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#10
Also the poll results shown by Newsweek was conducted by Pew Center, Chairman of the Pew Center is Donald Kimelman. His father Henry Kimelman was honored by Israel in 1998 for his services.
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#11
Kamil Wrote:Also the poll results shown by Newsweek was conducted by Pew Center, Chairman of the Pew Center is Donald Kimelman. His father Henry Kimelman was honored by Israel in 1998 for his services.

Kamil, are there any Turks, within the government, or former governments, who have been honoured by the Israeli? Just curious here.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#12
Yeah, definitely a Zionist/Neocon/Evil Jooos plot. :lol:

LMAO.
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#13
John L Wrote:
Kamil Wrote:Also the poll results shown by Newsweek was conducted by Pew Center, Chairman of the Pew Center is Donald Kimelman. His father Henry Kimelman was honored by Israel in 1998 for his services.

Kamil, are there any Turks, within the government, or former governments, who have been honoured by the Israeli? Just curious here.
I don't know.
However there are many anti Israel articles published by most EU Nations, Russia, Middle East countries, Turkey, etc., etc. and I'm not linking to any of them and not quoting from them :lol:
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#14
Still, I pray you do not feel we're attacking you or anything.
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#15
Kamil,

Just in case: the goal of the exercise is not to bash Turkey but understand what is happening. The articles I linked were chosen not because they are anti-Turkish but because they provide some insight. For instance, high unpopularity of the US in Turkey is obviously a factor, regardless of who ran the poll -- unless we have reasons to think that the poll was falsified or faulty in some way. If you want to argue with it, look for such evidence.
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#16
mv Wrote:Kamil,

Just in case: the goal of the exercise is not to bash Turkey but understand what is happening. The articles I linked were chosen not because they are anti-Turkish but because they provide some insight. For instance, high unpopularity of the US in Turkey is obviously a factor, regardless of who ran the poll -- unless we have reasons to think that the poll was falsified or faulty in some way. If you want to argue with it, look for such evidence.
Long time ago during my college years, one of the courses I took included skewing poll results by timing the poll and structuring the questions asked to play on the emotions of the participants.
Parts of the poll published in the Newsweek only shows Turks feeling at that time toward the USA. The same poll showed that Turks did not like anybody including Arabs at that time. Without knowing the questions asked during that poll, I can’t guess why they got these results.
Naturally poll results would be negative toward a country if it is taken right after a bad news comes out about that country (company or individual).
For example currently if poll is taken about BP Company, the results would be very negative about that company.
If poll was taken in Turkey right after US soldiers raided a legally located Turkish post in N. Iraq and treated captured soldiers like terrorists, put sacks over their heads, and get them beaten, the poll results would be very negative towards USA.
However the emotions of people do not last long and with changing conditions, people’s feelings also change in fairly short time.
For reasons stated above, I put no value to these types of poll results.
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#17
More than one poll was taken by Pew, in fact Turkey was polled every year since 2002 (the year Pew started doing this) and always scored about the lowest. So this is a consistent factor, not one faulty test, and I fail to see any reasons for Pew to manipulate data over so many years.

I'm not, however, convinced that this is directly related to AKP. It would have been very interesting to see just when the negative opinion about the US started forming, quite possibly around the Gulf War (Kurdish refugees), but no data I could find.

Still, persistently abysmally low liking of the US in Turkey seems a fact.

For 2009 Turkey is the lowest again (14% like the US), but the highest is -- behold -- Kenya with 90%.

On a separate test, "Confidence in the US president", Turkey scored 2% in 2008 and 31% in 2009... probably a combination of Obama's promises to quit Iraq and his recognition as a fellow Muslim.
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#18
US lawmakers blast 'disgraceful' Turkey over Iran, Israel

Quote:...

"I believe that blood is on the hands of Turkey," Republican Representative Peter King.

"As far as I'm concerned, Turkey is responsible for the nine deaths aboard that ship, it is not Israel's troops that are responsible," said Democratic Representative Shelley Berkley.

Pence said he would consider dropping his opposition to a US Congress resolution branding the World War I era mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman forces as "genocide" and hinted at other consequences.

Berkley said she had turned Turkish officials away from her office this week and would continue to do so "until I see and change in policy" and vowed to fight against Turkey's accession to the European Union.
....

I failed to see how Berkley can make the EU admit or reject the Turkeys, but I'd not be surprised if the Armenian resolution passes...
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#19
Posting comments of a staunch Israeli supporters as far as I'm concerned is waste of our times. To counter quotes from an Israeli supporter, I could post hundereds of quotes from commentators with opposing views, but I don't want to waste forum users times.

Rochelle "Shelley" Berkley (born Rochelle Levine January 20, 1951) is a politician from Las Vegas. Can anybody guess what ethnic background the last name of Levine belongs ? S1
--------------
About Peter King:
Quote:By REBECCA HARSHBARGER in NY and S.A. MILLER in DC
New York Post
June 14, 2010

Rep. Pete King says President Obama's weak Mideast policy is forcing House Democrats to make the difficult choice of either supporting Obama or supporting Israel.

"I hope they put our relationship with Israel above their relationship with Obama," King (R-LI) said yesterday.

Flanked by Jewish community leaders at a press conference across from the United Nations, King rallied support for his legislation calling for the US to quit the UN Human Rights Council and its probe of the Israeli raid May 31 on a flotilla off Gaza.

Not a single House Democrat, including the entire New York City delegation, would sign on to that resolution introduced by King last week.

But King found Dems and Jewish leaders back in the city who also don't trust the UN council, which regularly bashes Israel.

He was joined at the press conference by Democratic Assemblymen David Weprin and Rory Lancman, Rabbi Joseph Potasnik and Jewish community leader Jeffrey Wiesenfeld.
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#20
Kamil Wrote:Posting comments of a staunch Israeli supporter as far as I'm concerned is waste of our time. To counter quotes from an Israeli supporter, I could post hundereds of quotes from commentators with opposing views, but I don't want to waste forum users times.
I completely agree. I am more interested in the actual dynamics and implications of current politics than in the breast beating of either side. Those who spout the party line on either side are a dime a dozen and have nothing to contribute to a rational discussion.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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