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Coming war Against Israel
#21
John,

I tend to agree with you on uncontrolled ambition,I just don't agree that makes these type men lose judgment.

For example,Ahmadinejad really does want Israel to evaporate,but,he nor his mates are willing to see to it at the risk of Iran evaporating.

Only an unbalanced mind goes there.
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#22
I think what is keeping us from striking Iran, is the attempt within Iran to overthrow the current regime. Everyone is hoping they will do our work for us. I too thought they would have been successful by now, but they haven't.

Faster! Faster!!
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#23
John,

You think we could invade and occupy Iran? That's as likely as me becoming the next poet laureate.

Was Obama going to send toy soldiers in to do it?
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#24
Palladin Wrote:John,

You think we could invade and occupy Iran? That's as likely as me becoming the next poet laureate.

Was Obama going to send toy soldiers in to do it?

Patrick, where is all this "occupy" stuff coming from? Is Israel going to "occupy" Iran if/when it decides to take out it's nuclear capability?

Where are you coming up with all this extreme stuff?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#25
The same place you're coming up with the notion anyone can successfully end their nuclear ambitions by bombing various areas.

Add negative repercussions.

It may be a flop of an effort and then your Navy is a sitting duck for those mini subs NK sold Iran.

NK just sunk the Cheonan with one and the Cheonan didn't know what hit them. They had to lift the ship out of the water to even know why it got sunk.

Our troops in Iraq will be in renewed attacks and some analysts think Hezzbollah has many agents right here in the good old USA prepared to explode what they can.

All of that and the effort might be a flop anyway. Add in captured pilots,that's enough to make me pause.

I think you have to occupy the area to shut this down and we aren't up to that.

Keep in mind also that Turkey along with Brazil appear to be siding with Iran. Things are getting more rather than less complicated and the acceptance of American hegemony of that area is waning fast,IMO.

Now is not the time for a military escapade against Iran,that day is past.
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#26
Isn't it true that the Israelis are prepared for a chemical attack? There was some thought that Hussein (no, not BHO) might to use them in his scuds as I recall. If so, this reduces the chance that they would be used, I would think.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#27
I'll comment on the Putin-Iran-Israel issues a bit later (if time allows), but for more currently relevant items see this.
Sodomia delenda est

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#28
OK, a few comments.

Israel cannot pressure Russia; this has been already tried and failed. Remember that Israelis tried to be friendly with Orange Ukraine and supported mad Saak as well.

This is one reason why an Israeli attempt to switch allegiance to Russia is not likely. The other reason is that Putin is resurrecting Cold War structure of alliances (with some important additions)... this puts Syria into pro-Russian camp, and leaves no space for Israel there.

In fact, Israel might end up being totally isolated. The relations with Turkey are going down the drain (see above), and while there no evidence yet of problems with India, improved military cooperation between Russia and India lately is ominous.

Now, what about the Boy King? Some very interesting stuff here as well... it seems that he made a deal with Putin: US is to remove sanctions on Russian firms that help Iran, notice and to allow Russia to supply Iran with S300's; in exchange Russia will support very watered down sanctions on Iran. (The reason why US might welcome S300's in Iran is to prevent Israel from a unilateral attack on Iran.). So we might be seeing not a Russia-Israel understanding but perhaps a US-Russian alignment against Israel!

Don't get me wrong...we have no evidence that either Russia or US aims at destruction of Israel at this time, both leaders are too busy... one is rebuilding his country, the other one is destroying his, and both move so efficiently and fast that it is a pleasure to watch.

Anyway, watch the Turkish flotilla .. at this time it is more dangerous to Israel than chemical weapons.
Sodomia delenda est

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#29
Quote:“The Turks are apparently sensing an opportunity to try and push Israel into a difficult situation.”

Any other direction(which is what I think they meant by "situation") would be suicide for Israel. That is why it will not change it's direction. With Jews, this is life or death. With Turkey, it is not. Sort of like the difference between "involved" and "committed". Turks are involved, and Israel is committed.

Also, this push by Turks implies the military is going to go along with the current Muslim government. The military has a history of enforcing secular government, and there is a good chance that the Turkish military will not stand this. And we all know how the military solves problems with governments, which do not follow the secular rule thing. If the voters do not overthrow the current government, then they will not hesitate.

My take is that Friedman is correct about Turkey assuming the prime role in the area. The Euros are the direct reason, and they were too stupid to bring Turks into the Euro-Land fold. It's too late to do this now, now that the Euros are self-destructing so readily. However, the military is not going to allow itself become servants to the Islamists in Turkey. Even they are smart enough to know that this is a Lose-Lose proposition.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#30
Michael, what is this about? Is it a model ship? And what country is it from, if real? I know of no Russian ship looking like that.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#31
It's a Greek website commenting on a Korean (Dokdo) amphibious assault ship Turkey may purchase.

LP-X Dokdo (Landing Platform Experimental)
Amphibious Ship
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
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#32
Recent change in the leadership of CHP, the main opposition party in Turkey made it possible for them to win the next elections. Looks like Erdogan's party could get toppled without a military interference.

Even without a change in the regime, I don’t think Turkey would get militarily involved in any conflict with Israel.
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#33
Kamil Wrote:Recent change in the leadership of CHP, the main opposition party in Turkey made it possible for them to win the next elections. Looks like Erdogan's party could get toppled without a military interference.

Even without a change in the regime, I don’t think Turkey would get militarily involved in any conflict with Israel.

I don't either. Turkey has a long history of working with Israel, and they have been also sharing intelligence, along with training. Erdogan has been subtly tearing this down, but my guess it that it is a case of shooting themselves in the foot.

Oh, I don't believe Israel has made any position on the Kurd subject, have they? I think they have steered clear of any confrontation there, correct?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#34
I have read this only in the Turkish media, according to them Israel have been helping to train Northern Iraq's Kurdish Troops (Peshmerga).
Some Turkish media report that PKK terrorists have infiltrated into Peshmerga. However, in my opinion, even if these news are true, the training won't be very usefull as terrorist tactics.
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#35
Not optimistic about Turkish military interfering over this issue (which is "humanitarian", not religious), and by the time of the next election the damage to Israel and Israeli-Turkish relations will be done and will be permanent.
Sodomia delenda est

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#36
I have read that the Turks have made peace with the Kurds, essentially. If so, the Kurdish issue with the Israeli's may be moot.

What is not clear to me is the extent to which Turkey's actions are directed by their new pro-Muslim bias and/or their apparent desire to become a major player in the politics of the region.

I am rather surprised to hear that the opposition in Turkey has a chance of winning the next election. How much the military in Turkey will be chastise by the recent efforts against it is not clear to me, but the military seems to have lost much of its clout.

Opinions? Information?
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#37
JT,
During the last election Erdogan's AKP Party came to power by getting 32% of the votes. It seems like many opposition party leaders like and respect the new CHP leader Kilicdaroglu and might throw their support toward him during the next elections. Some estimate that CHP currently has 30% of the voters support.

Yes Turkey is in good terms with the Northern Iraqi Kurds, and they are helping Turkey to close down PKK's terrorist camps and supply depots located within their borders.
By the way, one of the reasons Turkey is getting along better with Iran is the efforts they are showing in destroying the terrorist camps located in their soil.
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#38
Kamil, your perspective is always enlightening and refreshing.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#39
jt Wrote:Kamil, your perspective is always enlightening and refreshing.

Seconded here. Wink1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#40
I was on the Kamil bandwagon years ago. He has good insights with Turkey and it's too bad we don't have the "Friday Night favorite photo" deal Kamil hosted,I loved that one!
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